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Politics : Welcome to Slider's Dugout -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: joearenagates who wrote (15538)	2/19/2009 11:10:44 AM
From: Amelia Carhartt	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50507

I agree with you. The problems seems to be the definition of American Dream. It used to be what it meant to you. If you plan, work hard and save you can have whatever you can dream. Now it seems to be I want to get as much as I can with the least possible effort. I am owed the dream.

To: joearenagates who wrote (15538)	2/19/2009 11:39:15 AM
From: morokko65	1 Recommendation Respond to of 50507

In the early 1970s British travel agents advertised: "Visit America while its still there" I think our society is more resilient than many of the gloom and doom crowd. I have worked in foreclosures & REO since 1994, I am well aware of the the economic underbelly, drive around Detroit or East St. Louis or Memphis to see what a post-superpower USA might look like. I think we go through a 20 year period similar to England's experience after WWII until 1965. They "won" the war, but lost the subsequent peace. We "won" the cold war, but frittered away geopolitical and economic gains in the 15 years chasing consumerism while economic rivals such as China and India consolidated their gains. I lived in England in the late 1980s and it was a generally positive post-superpower, post empire experience. anyway, long gold and Biotech on weakness. I think within 4 years we see a biotech boom before any gulag. Demographics are ripe for that (everyone wants to live to 120 and look 35) If that makes me a sheep, so be it. I think the establishment wants profits first, control second. The gulag gives them only one, the mall gives them both. I admire Slider's perspective & charting no less, and will continue to follow this thread for perspectives similar and different from my own.

To: joearenagates who wrote (15538)	2/19/2009 12:45:03 PM
From: Proud Deplorable	10 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50507

"What percentage of the population is living the Great American Dream? Admittedly, a very small percentage. However, those that are not were given the same opportunity to achieve it. " Totally untrue and you know this. Though I was born into a family whose father was top exec of advertising and marketing for one of the top 100 companies in the USA I can say I never lived that dream and consider it an illusion even though we lived in Beverly Hills. I was verbally and physically abused as a child so where was MY American dream? It was so bad I had to drop out of Beverly High while many of my friends went on to be the stars you see whenever you turn on your set or go to the cinema. Riches won't buy that dream for anyone. Working hard will but your own success is measured in other terms besides money so don't be saying that others have the same opportunities just because things fell into place for you. Others work just as hard only to fail or have their dreams stolen by Capitalist Crooks or bad luck or corruption. Everyone's life is different. Your dream came true, mine didn't for various reasons including inherited health problems. I am not amused by people who are successful financially, or generally in life, claiming that those who aren't had the same opportunities as they did as if the system is fine but they aren't. The system is NOT fine and in order for some to excel there must be those who they walk on to get where they are. Its called competition and only the strong survive, not the good or the honest people, necessarily After what we are witnessing it is plain to thinking people that we need much much more government control over those who consume and destroy like piranhas namely capitalists. We NEED socialism like they have in most of Europe and Australia in order to try to equalize opportunities and health care and education. What we don't need is governments moralizing and preaching politics and religion.

To: joearenagates who wrote (15538)	2/19/2009 1:39:03 PM
From: Joe Btfsplk	2 Recommendations Respond to of 50507

I find your sentiments and efforts admirable, but have to quarrel with a bit of hyperbole: capitalism is NOT a zero sum game. It's been a mere twenty +/- generations since all of humanity lived under the rules Malthus described. Through accidents of geography and culture and ?? the rudiments of capitalism and the division of labor began spontaneous evolutionary development. Place yourself on the first 90% of that continuum and your situation would be considerably less favorable. Unlike Blanche DuBois, we aren't dependent on the kindness of strangers. Rather their cumulative efforts and discoveries. Now we have BIG problems. My guess would be deficiencies in an imposed monetary system, combined with a Leviathan government neither wise nor frugal. I'm scared, sick about my grandkids future, hope more begin paying serious attention to the likes of Slider.

To: joearenagates who wrote (15538)	2/19/2009 2:00:31 PM
From: Ken Reidy	17 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 50507

The American Dream - hard work, living below our means, saving money....avoiding debt or paying it off early, and prospering as a result. No, this is not the American Dream...it is an ethical choice many make, often based on biblical principals. What you apparently are not realizing is that many people lived ethically and wisely...but weren't smart enough or lucky enough to sell their investments near the peak and convert the proceeds to gold or AAA tax free bonds. Rather they followed Wall Street's and the Government's advice to "Buy and Hold" and "Dollar Cost Average". As a result, these hard working citizens have lost half their life savings in a very short period of time...and may lose much more before this is over. Surely you must realize that a great percentage of the money you made trading CSCO was only possible because of ponzi fiat dollar creation which allowed CSCO's stock price to trade far higher than it ever should have. Because a lustful industry found creative ways to take the massive fiat created by an unethical government, leverage it to the hilt and push asset prices to ridiculous levels....you and many others prospered. I prospered by selling building materials in Southern California...sales that I now know were greatly inflated due to the massive credit bubble that enabled it all. I didn't realize it at the time...but looking back at it now I realize that my success was largely due to a fiat ponzi scheme that made everybody think they were much wealthier that they truly were. I now have mixed emotions about all the success I experienced form 1990 to 2006. It was great in the short run but will it have been worth it in the long run? Many say our country is bankrupt...as are most states. In an extremely short period of time...everything financial has been turned on its head. The policies introduced by the Fed in 1913 made much worse by Nixon's decision to take us off the gold standard in 1971 have brought us to our knees. When the denominator of our asset prices, the dollar, is simply a piece of paper backed by nothing and issued by what may be a bankrupt country...how much faith do you have today in the value of what you own? AAA ratings mean nothing anymore. As I sit here and watch BAC, C, GE and AIG trade like they are on the brink of collapse like so many others before them...I have no financial answers. It is sad that our country forsake its biblical foundation and did not live below its means and save money like some of its citizens did. Sadly, our leaders and bankers chose the wrong path and it has put us all in financial jeopardy. Thank God, money is not the answer to our problems.