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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: quehubo who wrote (105422)	3/3/2009 10:03:12 PM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541960

But blinded by ideology we get no compromise or awareness of reality The ideology of prosperity through consumption and borrowing is probably one of the mostly widely held ideas in America, regardless of its actual merits. If the voting public was ready for a drastic change, Ron Paul would have drawn more than single digits in the Republican primaries. Our borrow and spend binge was a collective effort on just about every level of society from the fat cats on Wall Street robbing us blind to the poor immigrants taking out exotic mortgages for overpriced houses to "live the dream". Those who want to change that mindset have totally failed to build a political consensus behind it so far. They have a long way to go, and starting from a point where people are feeling hurt and deprived will be that much harder, whether they should want the old "dream" again or not.

To: quehubo who wrote (105422)	3/3/2009 10:40:50 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541960

Obama is accelerating the financial decline in the markets which is just going to make his ability to govern even harder. Who seriously knows what's driving the markets these days. One could just as easily argue that it's increasing perceptions as to just how deep and wide and long this economic downturn is. That it's much too early for any serious effect from the Obama administration to be measured. Moreover, given the short term timelines that move the stock market, it's easier to argue that today's spin dictates the markets than to argue it's the actual proposals/programs of the Obama folk. More Cramer/Santelli than programs. At this point if he delivered a recovering economy by next election one moving away from over consumption he would be a rated a success. I fail to understand this point. You might wish to expand what you mean by it. My own reading, fwiw, is that we will have an extremely hard time getting back to "consumption" let alone "over consumption."

To: quehubo who wrote (105422)	3/4/2009 6:25:15 AM
From: NAG1	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541960

QH, The financial decline in the markets is related to the bad news in the economy and all the things we are finding out about the size of the problems at the banks and companies like AIG. Obama got a stimulus plan out within his first month in office and the money is barely getting out into the countryside at this time to create a stimulus. To blame Obama for that is unfair. In 6-12 months, if things are not starting to turn around, then the results start to get tied to this administration. The thing that I think is good about Obama is that he still seems to listen to people and appears willing to change his mind if the conditions on the ground change. I think that is going to be most important in this economy. There is going to be information that will come out that will cause there to be adjustments to be made. I think Obama has shown the flexibility to respond. What I find interesting about all this is that people are blaming Obama for spending too much and then these same people are blaming Obama for not stimulating the economy. Can't have it both ways. Unless it is only tax cuts that you want and that is where we have come from. Anyway, didn't mean to get long winded about this but some information that all the stimulus spending that all the governments are doing is starting to have an effect. bloomberg.com Being blinded by ideology that there is only one solution to the problem is where the republicans are coming from right now. The republicans that compromised and got something through, if this stimulus works, would be the true heroes. Neal