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To: prometheus1976 who wrote (101886)	3/3/2009 10:34:58 PM
From: starhawke	Respond to of 110194

For a pistol-caliber carbine, you may want to look at the Kel-Tec SUB-2000. Less than half the cost of the Bushie. Comes in 9mm and .40 caliber, about $300-$400. I have the .40 caliber Glock 22 version and I like it quite a bit. It's fun to shoot. "The SUB-2000 is available in the following versions only: 9mm : Glock 17, Glock 19, S&W 59, Beretta 92, SIG 226 .40 Cal : Glock 22, S&W 4006, Beretta 96, SIG 226" And if you like the 30 round capacity of the Bushie, a 32-round magazine for a Glock 17 fits just fine in the Kel-Tec, so you can blast away. <g> Not that I'm a firearms expert, or that I've even fired the Bushmaster. Just giving you some info. S en.wikipedia.org kel-tec-cnc.com

To: prometheus1976 who wrote (101886)	3/3/2009 11:38:38 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 110194

Never fired a Bushmaster, but so far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't buy anything based upon the M-4/16 upper receiver. They just get too dirty and unreliable for my liking. The HK 416 is the only thing I would trust.. but hard to come by and pricey. en.wikipedia.org Go long barreled "Jewzi", if you have to stay with 9mm. Also hear that the Beretta CX4 Storm might be a decent system for 9mm PersDef shooters.. Very "space age", but not sure of reliability. But there are very few moving parts and it's a blowback system, which are usually reliable: cx4storm.com defensereview.com Not very expensive either: ozarkguns.com I don't really see the need for a 9mm rifle when a pistol can work better. I'd rather have a .223, if only for that "tumbling" effect that leaves those nasty cavitation wounds. Hawk

To: prometheus1976 who wrote (101886)	3/4/2009 8:59:19 AM
From: Hoa Hao	Respond to of 110194

If price is a problem, or the availability of other types is an issue consider the Hi point en.wikipedia.org

To: prometheus1976 who wrote (101886)	3/4/2009 11:50:32 AM
From: FreedomForAll	Respond to of 110194

Marlin also made a $350-$400 9mm carbine a few years back. There should be some of those on the resale market. They generally make a good product and the operation is similar to the Ruger mini's.

To: prometheus1976 who wrote (101886)	3/4/2009 9:49:10 PM
From: ScatterShot	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 110194

P-76, I read the 4 replies, all good comments. If you like the AR style, I'd go w/ the .223/5.56 caliber. I think the HK that Hawk mentioned must have a gas piston actuation as opposed to the gas-blowback which most all AR styles use. I've also read that the blowback is "dirty" but my view is that cleaning a gun is therapeutic <g>. Heres a handy feature comparison chart I found of most AR styles available: spreadsheets.google.com Note that Bushmaster lacks in several features but that may not be important for the kind of use you intend. However, Bushmaster does make one piston model unlike the vast majority of their blowback models: bushmaster.com "Keeps carbon build up and powder residue from reaching - and fouling the Upper Receiver and Bolt Carrier" My impression is they all have a long, heavy and sometimes sloppy trigger pull. I found this and used it on mine for an improvement: sargenthome.com Also several trigger replacements are available. Lots of cool accessories available especially if you get the 4-sided rail mount forestock to mount it all. ar15pro.com brownells.com dynamicarmament.com I just mounted one of these neat little $20 gizmos: outdoorbunker.com Best advice is to spend a few hours research on the net and a few visits to your local dealers. If you find something to buy on the net, most local dealers will accept delivery for a very small fee if you get them to agree in advance and give you their FFL info. Let us know what you come up with!