To: i-node who wrote (199879 ) 5/3/2009 4:46:23 PM From: neolib Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 306849 That they are required to charge the same to self-pay patients as they do Medicare? Yes, I'm well aware. Another excellent example of the Government screwing things up. For example, the UCR for a Lap Cholecystectomy here is $970, while Medicare pays $578 (at my locality). A surgeon cannot even pay his malpractice insurance and office overhead based on that $578 payment, let alone generate any take-home pay. Trust me he can do quite well at it. How long does the procedure take? Then figure out what he can make in a day. He'll do just fine.If you are a Medicare patient and your provider "still makes money", it is only because he/she has a patient mix that permits it. As one who often advises physicians on this subject, I can tell you that we advise extreme caution when taking on Medicare patients, since it is impossible to make a decent living with only Medicare patients. The provider is a Vet, who does low cost spay/neuter for my wife's non-profit, to the tune of about $100K a year, of which I fund $30K. The Vet had just as difficult a time getting into Vet school as your Doc did into Medical School (actually harder because of limited Vet schools). The Vet cranks out over 100 surgeries/day and charges about $30 for a surgery. The Vet does not get rich, but does make a living. Contrast that to the length of time a Doc spends on laser eye surgery, (or pick any other example) and you'll start to understand why medical costs are so high. True the vet has no liability insurance, but Docs have a habit of grossly exaggerating that one. It is much lower than their salary for most Docs. A quick google search gave this:For 19 of the states that cap noneconomic damages, the MLM found that in 2002 the average premium for internists ranged from $ 4,023 to $ 10,098, for general surgeons, $ 10,896 to $ 35,915, and for obstetricians/gynecologists $ 17,786 to $ 55,084. In Table 1, we show the states with caps, identify their type of rating law and give an estimate of the average premium increase in 2002. That sounds about right to me, as I know that OBG as long bitched that malpractice insurance is driving them out of business. It should be pretty clear that the above rates (granted 2002) were not BK'ing many Docs in 2002 given the average salary of the time.Without the subsidy provided by commercial insurance, there is almost no portion of the medical community that could make a decent living. Keep watching medical tourism. The rates I see are in the 1/3 or 1/4 in many cases.