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Politics : Liberalism: Do You Agree We've Had Enough of It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (64932)	5/14/2009 7:19:17 AM
From: TideGlider	Respond to of 224755

What kind of character wrote that slop? "Sith Lord Cheney"? You really need better reading material.

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (64932)	5/14/2009 7:20:50 AM
From: TideGlider	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 224755

Glenn Beck: Universal Health + old people = death Audio Available: May 13, 2009 - 22:16 ET America's March to Socialism: Why we're one step closer to giant missile parades is now available as an audio book... Voice: The Glenn Beck program presents more truth behind America's march to socialism. Glenn: Yesterday, I told how you how the socialized health system in the UK was letting the last survivor of the Titanic go bankrupt because they weren't covering her health costs. Mark my words, they're going to start selling us universal healthcare as a solution to our Social Security and Medicare costs, Medicaid, it's all going under. They're going to revamp it. This is really dangerous. Why is it dangerous? Because look how it's happening and how it's working so wonderfully anywhere it's being tried. Hollywood, it kills me. Hollywood actually had step in. Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet bailed this 97 year old woman out to save her from healthcare despite endless examples of healthcare rationing in the healthcare system, Obama still full speed ahead on pursuing universal healthcare. He actually said that, you know, we all got to have the top flight medical care. It's not good enough that some people in our country have the best medical care. Excuse me? How are you going to be able to afford everyone having top flight medical care? You won't. You'll level the playing field which means we'll all have crappy healthcare. Don't worry, old people, though, it's going to be great. You're going to love it. When I say you're going to love it, I don't mean healthcare. I mean, heaven. You should see it especially this time of year. You can't get there fast enough. Let me tell you universal healthcare will help you do it. Why? Because of the cost benefit analysis. At the Senate finance committee hearings on healthcare reform, Professor Stuart Altman of Brandeis University said that resources get wasted in the American healthcare system. Wasted. Well, what does that mean? He means that it gets wasted specifically in one segment of the population. Old people, if you think I'm hyping it, his tonight to his words himself. Here's the audio record. Voice: Remember, our population is aging and at the very, very elderly, the costs go down so that percentage should be falling and it's not. Second, the cost of care is growing by so much so at the same percentage it's worth a lot more. So let's go back to the issue of comparative effectiveness which we're supporting. That's where that can have a big impact. It's not the only place. But that's where the waste is. That's where people are using technologies that really either don't work at all or keep people alive for very limited and very high costs. Hospice is one option, but we do need to take account of the?? you know, I hate to say it, the cost benefit of some of the things we do and either we can do it directly or we can do it by bundling payments and let the delivery system deal with it. So it's a combination of the delivery system dealing with it or?? and/or you providing more information for people that make the right decisions, both for themselves and for their care. Glenn: Do you understand what he just said? What he said?? this should terrify people. He's saying you can either let the delivery system do it, in other words, the healthcare system can just say, yeah, you're not going to get that. You're too old. You're a drain on society. I'm sorry, no kidney dialysis for people over 70. What is it in the UK? 60. Some the things they cut off once you outlived your usefulness. This is Nazi Germany stuff. This is the kind of stuff that is progressive in its nature. It is eugenics. It is survival of the fittist. It is the reason why the abortion argument makes so much difference. You can't devalue life at either end because these people are waiting to swoop in and say it's just not worth doing these things. Don't waste the money on old people. They're not going to live long anyway. Spend it on someone who meets the requirements of our cost benefit analysis. So old people, thanks for all the contributions you made to society during your better years but now we're sorry to say it's time to send you to a better place, heaven. glennbeck.com

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (64932)	5/14/2009 7:28:59 AM
From: lorne	2 Recommendations Respond to of 224755

ken...From article you posted...."Last night I was on Rachel Maddow's show on MSNBC at the top of the hour. But before I came on, through the earpiece I listened to the five minutes that Rachel sketched as a lead-in. Most of it was videotape from the last few days of former Vice President Dick Cheney extolling the virtues of harsh interrogation, torture, and his leadership."... And here is a well known democrat that agrees with VP Dick Cheney. Schumer on torture: 'Do what you have to do' New York Democrat made case in 2004 in favor of harsh interrogation May 13, 2009 © 2009 WorldNetDaily wnd.com The issue of harsh interrogation techniques to fight the war on terror has some lawmakers running for political cover these days. But at least one U.S. senator, New York Democrat Charles Schumer, made the case in favor of possible use of torture five years ago, explaining "most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, "Do what you have to do'" if there were an imminent nuclear threat against the nation." Speaking before the Senate Judiciary Committee on June 8, 2004, Schumer stated: youtube.com "And I'd like to interject a note of balance here. There are times when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands of lives are at stake. "Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, 'Do what you have to do.' "So it's easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be used. But when you're in the foxhole, it's a very different deal."

To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (64932)	5/14/2009 7:30:31 AM
From: lorne	2 Recommendations Respond to of 224755

ken..."The Truth About Richard Bruce Cheney"... Cheney in Manhattan: 'A giant conspiracy' on Iran May 12, 2009 Categories: Middle East politico.com Former Vice President Dick Cheney swung quietly through New York City Tuesday night to watch his daughter, Elizabeth, a former State Department official, argue the conservative side in a debate over American policy toward Iran, and to express his own skepticism of President Obama's promised negotiations. "We fail to recognize the fact that we're alone out there in terms of trying to achieve the objective of forcing the Iranians to give up their nuclear weapons," Cheney said at a dinner following the Intelligence Squared debate, in which Elizabeth Cheney and former Coalition Provisional Authority spokesman Dan Senor debated former diplomat Nicholas Burns and Mideast scholar Ken Pollack on the topic of negotiations with Iran. The former Vice President characterized the Iranian goal in negotiations on ending that country's nuclear program as mere stalling for time, and the Europeans as trying to "restrain the U.S." from military action. "Everybody's in a giant conspiracy to achieve a different objective than the one we want to achieve," Cheney said. The negotiations are "bound to fail unless we are perceived as very credible" in threatening military action against Iran, he said. "Most of the other nations out there are willing to live with a nuclear-armed Iran" he said, citing France, Germany and the United Kingdom in particular. Cheney was echoing his daughter's comments during the formal debate at Rockefeller University on Manhattan's East Side. "If they believe the threat of military force is on the table that’s frankly the only thing I’ve seen that convinces them they’d better get serious about sanctions," Elizabeth Cheney, the former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, said of U.S. allies at the formal, Oxford-style debate, sponsored by the Rosenkranz Foundation. "You negotiated for weak sanctions," she told Burns. "No I didn’t," he replied, at one point noting that it seemed as if he and Ms. Cheney "live in alternate universes." "We ought to have the courage to see it and the courage to admit it," Burns said, "What President Obama is trying to do is to create a new type of diplomacy," which he described as "tough-minded." Cheney and Senor, he said, are "leaving [Obama] with one option -- and that is war." Liz Cheney noted that she was "somewhere to the right of many people in the audience tonight, with one or two notable exceptions," indicating her father, but the former Vice President was in fact quite well-received on the hostile Manhattan terrain: He received a round of applause, and a lone hiss, when introduced, and he signed autographs after the event.