To: koan who wrote (24557 ) 5/18/2009 3:25:21 PM From: average joe Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 36917 "Kindness is our only redeeming quality and you want to chuck it!" Redeeming is an unusual word. To believe in redemption you need to believe in both a fall from grace and original sin. What you're advocating therefore is not a logical system but a faith based belief system, i.e. a religion. A religion needs saints or heroes, priests to administer the rites, beliefs, sacrifices, secret handshakes and most important a creed for the true believers to memorize and recite at group functions. "Redemption is a religious concept referring to forgiveness or absolution for past sins and protection from eternal damnation, generally through sacrifice. Redemption is common in many world religions and all Abrahamic Religions, especially in Christianity and Islam(???????). In Christianity redemption is synonymous with salvation. It can also refer to being forgiven from being evil. The Christian point of view states that if we died as we were born we would die in sin, therefore being condemned to eternal separation from God. True redemption only comes when we are given absolution for our sins; not being returned to some previous state of existence"Redemptive suffering "is the Roman Catholic belief that human suffering, when accepted and offered up in union with the Passion of Jesus, can remit the just punishment for one's sins or for the sins of another. Like an indulgence, redemptive suffering does not gain the individual forgiveness for their sin; forgiveness results from God’s grace, freely given through Christ, which cannot be earned. After one's sins are forgiven, the individual's suffering can reduce the penalty due for sin."newadvent.org