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To: paintbrush who wrote (51046)	6/7/2009 3:21:10 PM
From: RJA_	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 218753

From this page and the following: pprune.org PJ2. The Airbus family are easy to fly because.....the computers fly them. As pilots we simply point them where we want to go a then can literally let go of the stick as the computers auto trim out thrust changes, config changes and speed changes. I have no doubt my manual flying skills have declined since conversion on to type, we even leave the auto throttle in until it tells us to "Retard" no thinking required. Airbus automatics make hamfisted pilots look good. If Airbus developed a Cessna 152 that had auto trim and auto thrust the PPL could be reduced to a 5 hour course because no pilot would actually have to know how to fly an aeroplane. Modern automation on the flight deck severely erodes basic flying skills. I truly hope this wasn't a factor in the loss of the AF A330. Airbrake is offline __________________ well said Tony. The automatics make life easier but the failure states on a BUS are far more complicated and less intuitive than on a Boeing. Going back to stick and rudded as the 'cure all' is naive at best. better training (not the cheapest) more redundancy (not necessarily the most modern systems) and mandatory loft training for pilots based on ACTUAL fatal event like this and how to cope should be the minimum going forward. having flown most of the big manufacturers I'd still prefer the BUS for failures like EFATO and approach failures and day to day ops - but the Boeing for crosswinds, turbulence and 'significant multiple failures. At 2 in the morning at that altitude, in that weather faced with a rapid sequence of failures (if thats what happened) i'm not sure how any aircraft would have come out of it better. luck aswell as skill has a disproportionate influence. ________________________ Hi guys, I am an airbus captain with about 3000 hours on type. I have never been tought unusual attitude recovery in the sim. I was told, that you don't have to have this training, because the airbus has so many protections, that you don't need this skill (sounds very similar about the reasoning behind Titanic, but lets forget about this). Are you, Boeing guys, tought unusual attitude recovery from upsets in the sims? _______________________ PBY: Quote: Are you, Boeing guys, tought unusual attitude recovery from upsets in the sims? Yes

To: paintbrush who wrote (51046)	6/7/2009 5:05:21 PM
From: Elroy Jetson	Respond to of 218753

A frozen pitot tube cannot break a window. But a computer faced with incorrect information from a pitot tube will shut itself down. This or something else caused other computer systems on-board to fail in sequence. One of these computers can turn-off the pressurization system, or even turn-off the engines which provide the pressurization simply by failing or by issuing a command by itself. It's really a wonderful thing to give a computer power to over-rule the actions of the pilot. By the time the pilot, or the computer itself, had switched the flight controls to "alternate law" these other computer systems had joined the cascade of failure. I'm sure in time we'll learn the sequence of events, and if there were any damage from lightening to the computers, or any structural damage. But I see no reason currently to believe there was much damage to the aircraft before it hit the water. Even computer damage is unlikely as they continued reporting the state of their failure back to France. Monsieur Ordinateur was merely executing his instructions in an unanticipated and destructive manner. .