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To: GST who wrote (212290)	7/24/2009 1:19:01 PM
From: LTK007	Respond to of 306849

eloquent that GST. Skeeterbug arguments have me wonder is he of the social darwinisn school of "FREEDOM". To those that know of my personal feirce love of individualism and freedom need never confuse my views as sympathetic with Social Darwinism "Freedom". i, myself, DESPISE social darwinism. you write to SkeeterBug "You focus only on "freedom for me". You alone cannot be free -- there is no such thing as just you being free. To be free you have to have freedom for all -- and freedom for all requires justice, education and health for all." And to those two sentences i fully AGREE. Max

To: GST who wrote (212290)	7/24/2009 2:37:15 PM
From: 2sigma	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

Freedom has nothing to do with it. And by the way, you're too abstract and general with your terms. Define freedom, and then let's talk. Public subsidy and subsequent efficiency of services (i.e. police, fire, education and now healthcare) is the issue. Look at what public subsidy has done for education. This country has been moving towards functionally illiteracy for years relative to the rest of the first world. Look at what public subsidy has done for fire and police protection. Hey I'm happy with it. The brave-in-blue protect my ass pretty well. "A policeman who only protected me because he was on my personal payroll would not make me free --" This statement is ridiculous. Who cares. Cops are here to provide safety and order which are only a piece of the puzzle of what constitutes freedom according to my definition. Try Singapore. I hear there is lots of enforcement, but I wouldn't call their society any more free than here, it feels excessively constrained. Again freedom has nothing to do with the govt. providing healthcare. It's a luxury, based on available resources of a jurisdiction, not a right. It's not endowed to us by our creator. Where were you when the founding documents were taught in school, smokin' a crack pipe? H.

To: GST who wrote (212290)	7/25/2009 9:35:41 AM
From: Skeeter Bug	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

>>Again, this is nonsense. When I see a policeman on the street I do not say "that man cost me my freedom because I was forced to pay part of his salary"<< you cost them their freedom by demanding services. i'm not saying it is right or wrong (i think it is right), but this whole "give me health care to let freedom ring (for me!) things is over done, imho. looking over the details of the plan, it increases economic slavery for the young people of this nation, JUST AS I SAID IT WOULD a couple months back. --------------------------------------- Under the Senate plan, insurers would be barred from charging any more than twice as much for one patient vs. any other patient with the same coverage. So if a 20-year-old who costs just $800 a year to insure is forced to pay $2,500, a 62-year-old who costs $7,500 would pay no more than $5,000. money.cnn.com