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To: Win Smith who wrote (116688)7/27/2009 1:01:12 PM
From: Win Smith  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 542788
 
Forget Who Pays Medical Bills, It’s Who Sets the Cost nytimes.com

[ A little followup on medical cost issues from yesterday's NYT. The usual suspects on the positive side from Gawande's article show up here:

WASHINGTON — Every fight over health care reform is different, and every fight over health care reform is the same.

In 1929, Michael Shadid, a doctor in western Oklahoma, proposed an idea for making medical care affordable to farmers. Rather than pay piecemeal for treatments, farmers would each contribute $50 a year to a cooperative. Dr. Shadid and his colleagues would pay their own salaries and expenses with the aggregate sum, and no farmer’s annual bill for family medical care would exceed $50.

Horrified by the plan, other Oklahoma doctors tried to revoke Dr. Shadid’s license. The conflict was soon duplicated across the country; cooperatives sprang up, and the American Medical Association tried to beat them back. The A.M.A.’s members, as the historian Paul Starr has written, felt threatened because the cooperatives “subjected doctors’ incomes and working conditions to direct control by their clients.” . . .

That’s the same as in Oklahoma in 1929. And what has happened to Dr. Shadid’s model? It has survived. He built a team of doctors who collaborated closely and were not paid based on how many procedures they performed. Today, this description fits the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic (which Mr. Obama visited on Thursday), as well as less-known groups around the country.

Medicare data shows that these groups generally provide less expensive care and appear to deliver better results. Armed with this data, the doctors who run the groups have been lobbying Congress to make their model a bigger part of health reform. Two weeks ago, 13 such groups released a letter saying that recent versions of proposed legislation did not control costs enough.


In full:

By DAVID LEONHARDT

WASHINGTON — Every fight over health care reform is different, and every fight over health care reform is the same.

In 1929, Michael Shadid, a doctor in western Oklahoma, proposed an idea for making medical care affordable to farmers. Rather than pay piecemeal for treatments, farmers would each contribute $50 a year to a cooperative. Dr. Shadid and his colleagues would pay their own salaries and expenses with the aggregate sum, and no farmer’s annual bill for family medical care would exceed $50.

Horrified by the plan, other Oklahoma doctors tried to revoke Dr. Shadid’s license. The conflict was soon duplicated across the country; cooperatives sprang up, and the American Medical Association tried to beat them back. The A.M.A.’s members, as the historian Paul Starr has written, felt threatened because the cooperatives “subjected doctors’ incomes and working conditions to direct control by their clients.”

The issue was clear: Who controls the doctor-patient relationship? That question has been at the core of every big subsequent battle over health care. Should doctors determine not only their patients’ treatment but also their own pay, through the fee-for-service system that has survived since the 1920s? Or should patients have more power in the relationship? And who could claim to act on patients’ behalf, monitoring treatments and bargaining with doctors?

A succession of presidents — from Harry S. Truman to Richard M. Nixon to Bill Clinton — volunteered the government for the role of patients’ advocate, and their grand efforts all failed. Now it is President Obama’s turn to try to remake America’s medical system.

Last week’s back and forth, when Congressional Democrats squabbled and Mr. Obama took his case to the public, highlighted how difficult his task will be. Reform of health care has the potential to threaten profits and incomes that make up one-sixth of the economy. More daunting, perhaps, Americans seem to have great trust in their doctors — more, certainly, than they trust the government on medical matters.

More than three in four Americans are “very satisfied” or “somewhat satisfied” with their own care, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll. But a substantial majority also say that the health care system needs fundamental change and that rising costs are a serious threat to the economy — a view that economists strongly share.

Thus the political challenge facing any effort at an overhaul: Americans say they want change, but they also want to preserve their own status quo.

The disconnect can be explained partly by the peculiar economics of health care. Because third parties — the government or a private insurer — typically pay the bill, many people miss the fact that the money originally comes from them. They see the benefits of medical care without seeing the costs.

But trust in doctors is a factor as well. Even when doctors order costly treatments with serious side effects and little evidence of their being effective, as studies find is common, patients are loath to question the decision. Instead of blaming such treatments for the rising cost of medicine, many people are inclined to blame forces that health economists say are far less important, like greedy insurance companies or onerous malpractice laws.

Mr. Obama is well aware of the public perception. This is why he directs his criticism not at doctors but at insurers and drug companies. In his news conference on Wednesday night, he advocated creating a government panel with the power to begin moving Medicare away from its fee-for-service model and emphasize outcomes instead. But he described it in doctor-friendly terms — as “an independent group of doctors and medical experts who are empowered to eliminate waste and inefficiency.”

His rhetorical choices highlight one of the least discussed but most important conflicts in the current health care debate. The fight isn’t just a matter of Democrats vs. Republicans, Blue Dogs vs. liberals or patients vs. insurers. It is also doctors vs. doctors.

That’s the same as in Oklahoma in 1929. And what has happened to Dr. Shadid’s model? It has survived. He built a team of doctors who collaborated closely and were not paid based on how many procedures they performed. Today, this description fits the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic (which Mr. Obama visited on Thursday), as well as less-known groups around the country.

Medicare data shows that these groups generally provide less expensive care and appear to deliver better results. Armed with this data, the doctors who run the groups have been lobbying Congress to make their model a bigger part of health reform. Two weeks ago, 13 such groups released a letter saying that recent versions of proposed legislation did not control costs enough.

Their goal is to weaken the fee-for-service system. In its place, doctors might receive a lump-sum payment to treat a patient with a certain condition, based on average costs elsewhere and on what scientific evidence had found to be effective. Hospitals with especially good outcomes might earn bonuses.

Advocates say such a system could ultimately give doctors more control. Rather than having to organize their schedules around the tests and procedures that insurers agree to reimburse, doctors could opt for the treatments they deem most effective. “It’s a lot more accountability, which is why it’s scary for physicians,” said Dr. Mark McClellan, a former head of Medicare under George W. Bush. “But in some ways it’s also more autonomy.”

On Tuesday, doctors and hospital executives from 10 cities with below-average cost growth gathered in Washington for a conference called, “How Do They Do That?” They were a diverse lot, only some of whom hailed from providers resembling the Mayo Clinic. While crediting a range of factors for their success, they generally agreed about what ails American medicine.

When Dr. McClellan, who helped organize the conference, asked how many people thought the fee-for-service system was “archaic and fundamentally at odds” with good practice, most hands shot up. In effect, they were siding with Dr. Shadid and against a system that provides incentives for more and more care, regardless of its benefit.

“There are no consequences right now to over-utilization,” Dr. Anthony F. Oliva, chief medical officer of the Guthrie Healthcare System, in northeast Pennsylvania, said later. “If you don’t have consequences, you won’t change the culture. If you don’t have consequences, the people that are killing themselves to control cost are going to say, ‘Why am I doing this?’ ”

It is a message, of course, that a doctor can deliver more easily than anyone else.



To: Win Smith who wrote (116688)7/27/2009 2:28:13 PM
From: Murrey Walker  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 542788
 
In a nutshell, it's sometimes hard to distinguish "defensive medicine" from not leaving any money on the table.

The businessman that leaves money on the table won't stay in business that long. You and I know that. And as the article points out, this situation exists.

I do think the story gives too much credit to the likelihood that physicians are businessmen. I know this is anecdotal, but I have many personal friends that are "professionals" and of the group, maybe one could be called a businessman. IMO physicians are artists to begin with and anything that happens outside their sphere of work is pure serendipity.

While I favor eliminating the fee based system, most physicians don't own the physical plant and those tests that come out of them.

Defensive medicine then becomes the byproduct of hospitals, insurance companies, and equipment/pharma manufacturers. I personally think the largest area of abuse is found here.

One thing I know, is that the more I discuss these issues online and with others, the more I realize that, to enact sweeping changes in a short window of time could be disastrous!

And because our congress and executive branch is so caught up in political theater, that disaster is what we'll get.



To: Win Smith who wrote (116688)7/27/2009 2:57:48 PM
From: biotech_bull  Respond to of 542788
 
Healthcare is a complex issue and it's hard to justify broad generalizations based on a provocative story about an outlier - Obama's ignorant tonsillectomy comment is a case in point. Here is an excellent discussion about the Gawande article from a panel of real experts that put things in a broader (less sensational) perspective - the entire piece is quite long, but worth reading.

Highlights

GAIL WILENSKY: ... I’m struck by the level of interest in Gawande’s article, and by the fact that something that has been discussed by policymakers so often and so long periodically invokes this level of surprise.

But I was a little concerned as well reading the article that there are areas of total speculation that receive some of the same attention as areas that have had much more consistent support. I’m thinking about the Anchor Tenant Theory of Economic Development — that’s all very nice, but it’s clearly as speculative as it comes.

By contrast, one of the most interesting aspects that Wennberg raised a long time ago is that variations tend to occur when there is either uncertainty about the diagnosis given the symptoms, or uncertainty about the appropriate treatment given the diagnosis. That would suggest to me that we should not focus only on questions about the economic incentives, such as whether we can go to salaried physicians, or at least accountable units. Both salaried physicians and accountable units may be desirable for a whole set of reasons, but focusing only on them ignores the other obvious track, which may be even easier to implement: trying to put more treatments into the certain rather than the uncertain bucket. I was astounded that Gawande raised this and noted where this happens, but that was the last time we heard about it.

FISHER: Gail, you’re right, but what we’ve learned in the last 15 years at least is that the differences in spending across regions seem to be pretty unrelated to disagreements about evidence, and that most of the differences in spending arise for the kinds of decisions where evidence is never going to help us, where judgment remains. Atul went to pretty great lengths to summarize the paper that Brenda Sirovich wrote in Health Affairs about the lack of correlation between evidence-based decision making and spending. In Sirovich’s research, physicians were given patient vignettes, and there was tremendous variation in decisions such as when to admit a patient with heart failure, when to refer them to a specialist, or how often to see them for an episode of well-controlled hypertension. Through Sirovich’s work, Atul highlights an area which deserves increasing attention: How do we help physicians make judgments when there is substantial uncertainty, as there will always be, especially for patients with serious illness or chronic illness?

(snip)

BERENSON: I guess, but if the focus is on, let’s say, the current Medicare acute care events demo for hip replacement, knee replacement, and heart surgery, you continue to have hospital specialist-oriented care. You still have fee-for-service incentives, even if it is a bundle, unless you’ve got awfully good appropriateness criteria. You may get a more efficient throughput in that hospitalization, but in fact, if anything, you’ve now aligned even more closely the incentive for service line development of specialty lines, and not holistic views of taking care of patients. That may be what you have to do for academic health centers that may be more resistant, but I really think we want to start with primary care-oriented IPAs and multispecialty groups, and invite the specialists to join there.

As you said earlier, Elliott, if in fact you have some risk bearing, then that organization will want to make sure that the home health agencies aren’t doing unnecessary or even fraudulent services. If you’re simply paying for bundled episodes, you’re not going to get where you want to go. So I’m not sure we should be spending an awful lot of time trying to figure out how to get bundles right.

WILENSKY: I know Bob Berenson has indicated his skepticism and concern about the bundling strategy. I’m at least as concerned that if the hospital is the recipient of the money, we could end up with hospital-centric care. The one great advantage of the thinking during the Nixon period was that the money was going to an inclusive entity, including the financers and the deliverers of care. If accountable units put the money in the hands of the hospital, that would make it more difficult to get the appropriate level of care, in part for the reasons that Bob Berenson was just suggesting, which could be a result of the bundled payments.

FISHER: Let me just clarify at least so that you all know and our readers know where Mark McClellan and I are going in our support for early pilots and our definitions of organizations that could be accountable care organizations. We are completely agnostic. The key requirements are that they have primary care physicians, as Bob [Berenson] was mentioning; that they be able to be accountable for the overall cost of care of the population; and that they be big enough so that we can actually measure their costs. We think the critical size is probably 15,000 people under age 65, and maybe 5,000 Medicare beneficiaries, given the greater disease burden and the higher costs in that population.

(snip)

GALVIN: Elliott, what really worries me about that model is that when we analyze our data, both from last year and more recently, we are seeing price increases — not use increases, but price increases — of up to 25-35 percent. These increases have been almost completely in markets that have hospitals with a sizable number of employed physicians in that community. We’re not clear whether we’re getting any quality increases, but we’re sure having affordability issues.

FISHER: I think monopolistic pricing will be a real issue, and it will be good for us all to talk about what levers we could use to address that.

healthaffairs.org