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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (118596)	8/18/2009 10:40:44 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541931

Some data on the effect of the healthcare nuttiness from the further RW folk. Steve Benen. ------------------------------ August 18, 2009 AN AWFULLY BIG 'FRINGE'.... There have always been at least two key angles to the right-wing attacks against health care reform: 1) the willingness of conservatives to lie; and 2) the willingness of the public to believe the lies. It's one thing for prominent far-right voices to talk up imaginary "death panels," for example, but who's going to believe such garbage? We're talking about a radical, isolated fringe, right? Wrong. A Research 2000 poll for Daily Kos, in what I believe is the first national poll on the question, gauged public opinion on this. Respondents were asked whether the reform proposals under consideration would create "death panels" that would dictate medical care based on Americans' "productivity in society." Nearly three-fourths of the public (72%) said no, 11% said yes, and 17% weren't sure. But of greater interest were the partisan numbers. Democrats and independents rejected the claim in large numbers, but here were the results for self-identified Republicans: Yes: 26% No: 43% Not sure: 31% There were similar results on related questions. Republicans, unlike Democrats and independents, also believe reform would "require elderly patients to meet with government officials to discuss 'end of life' options including euthanasia," and consider reform to be a government "takeover" of the health care system. Neither claim is true. On a more comical note, Republicans were also far more likely to believe that Medicare is not a government program than anyone else. While only 7% of Democrats were confused about Medicare, the number of Republicans who believe Medicare isn't a government program was twice as high (14%). But specifically on the "death panel" confusion, we're in the midst of a national debate in which a clear majority of rank-and-file Republicans either believe "death panels" are a serious proposal or aren't sure. Greg Sargent, who called his "astonishing," added, "The key here is that the question was specifically worded to mirror Palin's assertion that Obama's death panel will evaluate a person's right to medical care based on whether they're productive in society. More than a quarter of Republicans believe this, and nearly a third are not sure." It does offer some context for the angry right-wing protestors. Why would they fight so hard against a reform plan that would help their families? Because they've been lied to so often, they actually think Democrats literally might start killing people. —Steve Benen 10:00 AM washingtonmonthly.com

To: JohnM who wrote (118596)	8/18/2009 11:52:51 AM
From: Bread Upon The Water	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541931

From today's WSJ: "The plan under negotiation in the {Senate} Finance Committee would establish cooperatives with a minimum of 500,000 members to ensure bargaining leverage, Mr. Conrad said. An interim, government-named board would provide start-up expertise, and a government provided insurance reserve would allow the co-ops to get running quickly and reach the 12 million {member} mark. Mr. Conrad (Senator North Dakota) put the start up price at 6 billion." The article goes on to describe the success of Co-ops in Southern Wisconsin and Seattle, but cautioned that it took a lot of time for them to acquire the necessary expertise to be successful.