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Politics : A US National Health Care System? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ProDeath who wrote (8733)	8/27/2009 1:57:23 AM
From: TimF	1 Recommendation Respond to of 42652

the ideologies are just affectations to justify avarice Some use them that way, but that doesn't mean that's all they are or what they really are. Even communism, which I consider morally bankrupt and practically foolish, isn't something that I would say is just an affectation. It has serious (if wrong headed) ideas, that have been seriously believed by many people. I'm not 100% sure what specifically you mean by capitalism in this context but if you mean the believe in free market, then the ideology itself isn't about avarice. Desire for profit is not the same as "excessive or insatiable desire for wealth or gain" ( merriam-webster.com ) and even the desire for profit is a mechanism, not the ideological principle, which is freedom in areas of economic concern. You may return to flogging your straw man now whilst we continue to behold the ongoing failure of western capitalism. It isn't failing, at least not yet, but if it does it will be in the sense of being abandoned.

To: ProDeath who wrote (8733)	8/27/2009 8:01:09 AM
From: Lane3	1 Recommendation Respond to of 42652

Remember, it's all about who gets what from whom, the ideologies are just affectations to justify avarice... I heartily disagree. Sure, justification of avarice is a factor but not what "it's all about." For me it's all about operating under a system that is dynamic and stable long term. If that system happens to satisfy the greed of some in the process, so be it. Better to do that than to crash and burn while temporarily satisfying the greed of others in the process. IMO, too many take positions on this based on whose avarice they favor. That would be reasonable only if the two systems were equally viable, but they aren't.

To: ProDeath who wrote (8733)	8/27/2009 8:58:36 AM
From: skinowski	2 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 42652

I don't believe that it is a question of abstract ideologies - it is about real life realities. Capitalism is merely a system under which the rights of an individual are relatively well protected - including the right to own property and means of production. Under collectivism - or communism, if you prefer - rights and interests of the group (society) overwhelm those of an individual. That's the simple difference. Add to that the fact that under a collectivist social system it is not the "people" who have power -- but the political bosses. Inevitably, it becomes a dictatorship. Capitalism didn't fail -- it is being re-invented in Asia, notably, in the formerly communist China. An objection to the effect that they still profess to be communists would not hold -- don't listen what they say, watch what they do.