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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: O'Hara who wrote (9161)	10/30/1997 11:32:00 AM
From: Lee Bush	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Shalom Shalom: Thank you for your post. It was needed. Perhaps I gave a false impression to Ron in my discussion of my thoughts about the process of evolution. It is God who created the earth. What means He used we do not know for certain, but I am speculating that the emergence of life on the planet used this process. In my study of scripture I see clearly that the trinity was involved. When the spirit moved on the waters, that was the Holy Spirit of God. When God wills it into being, that was the Father. When the word was sent, that was the preincarnate Jesus who carried out the will of the Father. Nothing inconsistent with the nature of God as He has revealed himself to us throughout the scriptures. We ponder the mystery of the One Triune God in three persons, but that is what the Bible teaches us, in both the old covenant and the new. Lee

To: O'Hara who wrote (9161)	10/30/1997 2:18:00 PM
From: Ronald P. Margraf Sr.	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Afternoon Shalom, Thank you for the welcome. Ah yes, sorry for not making it more clear but I stumbled on this thread (forum) by accident. Actually I am surprise that there is a place that one can exchanges views and interpretations of the Bible and do it in an intellectual manner. When your mind is geared up in one thing and then is diverted to another trane of thought it sometimes takes a few posts to get focused. Do to the time that is available to me I will only address one part of the post and do the rest later this evening when I return home from work. Let me address the Creation comment and I will do it through an analogy. First let us agree on something first. Genesis was written by man, (Moses), and Moses got his information directly from God, is that correct?, do you agree? Now I am a firm beleiver in the writtings of the Bible, Old & New Testaments. I don't question them but accept them in all their entirty. Now that does't say I agree with the interpretations that some have or the way it is presented in the church/churches for I feel that they don't teach the word of God or Jesus but manipulate it to achive a particular objective/goal and have an entirely different agenda then what the Bible is portraying. SO! The point that I'm getting at is this. When God tells Moses that WE (plural) not me (singular) created the earth and all the universe, I don't think Moses made a typo. Now I have raised this (WE) thing with many a person and all one gets is "Well that is not what it implies (means)". Now of course they are going to defend the We as just a figure of speach. I disagree. You beleive all of the writtings or none of them. This is not a newspaper that you just select the article that you want to read and throw the rest away. It is an all or nothing. Now, if I am a contractor/owner and want to build something, I say I am going to build a house. It doesn't matter if I use help or not. I am the one that is going to be building the house. We are going to use My resources, whether they be mental or physical. If I use a crew or not and the house gets built it is because I built it, I made it happen. Even though (we the crew) built it, it is recognized that I built it. So when God tells Moses that (We) created the Earth that implies just that. He directs, He tells, He points, He expends, He decides whether it is good or bad. HE!, HE!, HE!, even though it is (We/Us) did it. He doesn't have to puff himself because if it wasn't for HIM it WOULDN'T have happend. So you see my point. Now when I get back I will point out where in Genesis it clearly states (WE). I will tell you though that I am not a Verse reciteer. I point out where it is at and then one can read it for themselves. That way they read the whole text and not just the portion that I am trying to justify my statements or idea of thought. One has to read all the text, the before that leads up to it and the after that explains it. So, Shalom I hope this clears it up from where I am coming from. I will continue later and identify and present the proof. Ron

To: O'Hara who wrote (9161)	10/30/1997 10:45:00 PM
From: Ronald P. Margraf Sr.	Respond to of 39621

Evening Shalom, A really great night tonight. Not to cold. Well let me see if I can answer your reply piece by piece. I have already given you the analogy on the supervising matter. Now let me see if I can explain my and I say MY interpretation of the rest. When I use the RIGHTHAND OF GOD in referrence to Lucifer I am not referring to the throne or heaven. I am still once again using the construction analogy. If I am the Contractor/Owner, my superientendent is my right hand. He speaks for me when I'm not there and make some decissions that will not change or deter from the finial goal. So when I use that phrase that is what I am referring to. So I hope this clears up all questions that you have in regards to this post? Ron PS On the WE/US I will respond to that on the other post and then hopefully this should all come togeather.