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To: LoneClone who wrote (174843)	9/16/2009 7:56:19 PM
From: Cheeky Kid	Respond to of 312739

I will have it deleted.

To: LoneClone who wrote (174843)	9/16/2009 9:58:59 PM
From: E. Charters	1 Recommendation Respond to of 312739

Well off topic or not, it is hardly venomous to say socialists are lying to themselves. But they are not just lying to themselves, they are lying to everyone else too. Charitable, caring governments which don't just throw people on a rubbish heap are not the sole domain of left wingers. And viable economies where there is sufficient wealth and no social inequity that never suffer boom bust cycle are obviously not the sole domain of capitalists. They all have huge warts. There is corruption of the worst kind in every stripe of government. There has to be balance and checks on government expenditures. Right now our governments are the richest, most powerful and most able to censor, control, and monitor their citizens of any governments who ever existed. The could not tap 100,000 telephones a minute in the day of Tutankhamen. People are not more free today than they were in Germany in the 15th century. There are still black markets, unfair trials, scandals, corruption, and poverty today, in the USSR, and the USA. As much probably as there was in the Holy Roman Empire. Power keeps corrupting and history keeps repeating itself. Democracy and social welfare has created the illusion of wealth and freedom. In fact mankind is engaged in the same desperate struggle for power he has always been engaged in. In the past there have been healthy, wealthy societies, which if the relative progress of man is taken into account had more equitable distribution of wealth and power than today. Democracy started, they say in Athens in the 4th century BC. Probably the Romans had as much electoral democracy as we do, as they started the system of elected government and election campaigns, much as we know it today. Even given the Ceasars they had, who are not much different than the presidents we have today. And they seem to get put into power, by corrupt cabals, and removed in the same way. Perhaps not by knives on the steps of the capitol but often by hidden men in towers. high powered rifles have given the plotters plausible deniability. I suppose some ancient spirit would that they had such bolts from the blue. I am sure lone nuts with a crossbow would have stalked the streets of Rome. We are just a repeat of the past. No individual citizens in the US has any power over government. He only has what influence he can create from his intellect, and his birth and the cronies he kowtows to, who have wealth and connections. Has anything ever changed? We are still debating excess government expenditures as they did at the time of Pericles and Themistocles. Do we build a bigger army, do we let this man or that have power? EC<:-}