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Politics : Rat's Nest - Chronicles of Collapse -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (9660)	10/24/2009 8:16:51 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24212

Obama energy speech contains few policy specifics, but shapes forward-looking narrative video, transcript grist.org

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (9660)	10/24/2009 8:57:13 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24212

Nate Hagens (on TOD) on October 24, 2009 - 7:47am When the reporter called I was in the middle of a computer problem so he didn't have my whole attention. As such: "The main problem with neoclassical economics is that it treats energy as the same as any other commodity input into the production function," Hagens said. "They parse it into dollar terms and treat it the same as they would mittens or earmuffs or eggs ... but without energy, you can't have any of that other stuff." ..my brain couldn't think of examples quickly while multitasking so I looked around the living room and saw mittens, earmuffs and eggs and it just came out....;-) Also - the 'collapse' comment was a bit out of context - reporter asked if a drop in overall EROI of would collapse society and I said it would collapse an economic system dependent on growth and if we went from overall of 20 to overall of 3 it would be guaranteed to collapse economic system. Also, the EROI numbers he showed were funny - I think he conflated US and Global EROI - US was 100+:1 in 1930s, 30:1 in 1970s and 11-17:1 in 2000. Also US peaked in 1970, not a 'decade ago'. Glad to see the Soddy reference. I just reread that book (again amazed that people were sussing out the disconnect between virtual wealth and real wealth 80+ years ago)...