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Politics : A US National Health Care System? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (10886)	10/30/2009 9:22:05 AM
From: i-node	Respond to of 42652

Moody's said 60 percent were incremental, while General Motors estimated it was about 500,000. Would that be the same GM that has a vested interest in seeing programs of this nature?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (10886)	10/30/2009 9:42:54 AM
From: Peter Dierks	Respond to of 42652

Moody's is a bond rating agency. Edmunds is a car statistics organization. Would you trust Edmunds if they issued a a bond rating of triple A for a company that Moody's and S&P issued a junk rating to? If you did you would be a fool. Similarly, we are not fools who grasp at non significant spin. Give it up, the cost per incremental car sold was an indefensible $24,000 each. That was most likely the worst waste of government funds in our lifetimes.

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (10886)	10/30/2009 2:54:02 PM
From: longnshort	Respond to of 42652

Obama Website Reports Only 20 Jobs “Created or Saved” in Connecticut, 28 in Vermont & 22 in New Hampshire Friday, October 30, 2009, 6:18 AM Jim Hoft The White House today anounced that President Obama’s economic stimulus plan has so far saved or created more than one million jobs. But Barack Obama’s government website paints a totally different picture—- According to Recovery.gov the Obama Stimulus “created or saved” only 20 jobs in Connecticut. Via Radio Vice Online and Recovery.gov The Obama Stimulus created 28 jobs in Vermont. The Obama Stimulus created 22 jobs in New Hampshire. In fact the White House website reported today that a total of only 30,383 jobs have been created or saved by the Obama-Pelosi Stimulus. They seem to have lost around 970,000 jobs some where. Or, maybe they were never there to begin with? The US has lost 3.3 million jobs since the Obama-Pelosi stimulus act passed. The US unemployment spiked from 7.6% to 9.8% this year under Obama… the highest rate in 26 years. gatewaypundit.firstthings.com Of course the whole "created or saved x jobs" measurement is a bogus idea in the first place. You can count created jobs, but you miss the jobs that the indirect effects of your programs destroyed. As for "saved" jobs they can't really be counted even if your only counting the direct effects and ignoring the "unseen" indirect effects. Also its easy to create jobs, esp. on a temporary basis. Creating new jobs that produce actual net wealth is another story, far more difficult to measure, and not something that can reliably happen through all this new government spending (which at least in the long run, and perhaps in the not so long run is more likely to be a net destroyer of wealth) Message 26059897

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (10886)	11/3/2009 12:32:28 PM
From: Peter Dierks	1 Recommendation Respond to of 42652

Editorial: $230,000 per job Stimulus money spent in Michigan doesn't deliver nearly enough bang for the buck The Detroit News Last Updated: November 03. 2009 1:00AM . The Obama administration is attempting to spin the tepid job creation sparked by the $787 billion federal stimulus program into an economic success. But the numbers don't add up to a good return for taxpayers. In fact, the numbers don't add up at all. The administration will report this week that roughly 650,000 jobs have been created or saved on spending of $160 billion. The White House claims that may be a low-ball estimate and that real job impact may top 1 million. But it may be far lower. The Associated Press checked the administration's initial jobs claims and found numerous exaggerations, duplicate counts and outright misstatements. Even using the administration's more generous projection, it's still $160,000 spent for every job created or saved. In Michigan, the job-to-spending ratio is more skewed. The White House Web site, recovery.org, reports that Michigan has received $5.2 billion and has created or saved 22,500 jobs. That's $231,000 for every job. Half of the jobs affected have been in education, according to a report issued Monday by Secretary of Education Arne Duncan. He says 325,000 teaching jobs have been saved. Duncan should have waited a few weeks before adding Michigan to the tally. Cuts to the state education budget late last month have not yet shown up in pink slips for teachers, but that's coming unless the money is restored. The inefficiency of government stimulus spending ought to inform policymakers on how the remaining funds should be used. President Barack Obama is spending a great deal of taxpayer money to generate or protect 3.5 million jobs -- what the president promised when lobbying for the stimulus package. Now it appears the White House is working overtime to spin a disappointing initial jobs reports in the most positive direction. Policy should be based on real numbers, not propaganda. Obama owes taxpayers an accurate accounting of the effectiveness of stimulus spending before additional dollars are spent. detnews.com This is a liberal rag. Even liberal opinion leaders admit it, it is safe for you to too. It was a total waste of money.