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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Cindy B. who wrote (524901)11/1/2009 10:29:04 AM
From: bentway2 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1580370
 
Cindy, taxes aren't historically high now. As a matter of fact, they're LOWER than they were AFTER the Reagan tax cuts! Here's the history of our tax rates:

truthandpolitics.org



To: Cindy B. who wrote (524901)11/1/2009 10:35:26 AM
From: bentway1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1580370
 
Scozzafava's Supporters Like Obama, Dislike Hoffman and Owens

by Nate Silver @ 12:24 PM
fivethirtyeight.com
( While your obscure district still has it's 15 minutes of fame..)

Certainly, the conventional wisdom would be that when the Republican candidate suspends her campaign and encourages her supporters to vote for someone else, it would help the Conservative candidate more than the Democrat. And that's where the betting is on Intrade, where Conservative Doug Hoffman has shot up from having a 50 percent chance of winning NY-23's special election to a 67 percent chance on the news this morning.

The reality may be more complicated.

Consider the Siena poll out this morning, which has all sorts of useful cross-tabs. Scozzafava's supporters in this poll:

-- Have a favorable view of Barack Obama by a 64-31 margin.
-- Have an unfavorable view of Hoffman 15-57.
-- Have an unfavorable view of Democrat Bill Owens, 19-50.

It's not quite so clear how Hoffman stands to benefit from this. Although a majority of Scozzafava's supporters are Republican (about 62 percent, by my reckoning), it is safe to assume that they are mostly rather moderate Republicans, because almost all the conservative Republicans had already gone over to Hoffman. To wit, two-thirds of Scozzafava's supporters say they like Barack Obama. While moderate Republicans are an endangered species elsewhere in the country, that is not true in upstate New York, where a lot of voters are registered as Republicans and vote that way in statewide races but often vote Democratic in federal races. (NY-23 supported Barack Obama 52-47 last November.)

The reality is that a lot of Scozzafava's ex-supporters, many of whom don't like either Hoffman or Owens, simply won't vote. And some of them will still wind up casting their ballots for Scozzafava undaunted, as she'll still appear on the ballot and may have made herself something of a sympathetic figure. Certainly, it would seem to help Hoffman if Scozzafava decided to endorse him -- but only 15 percent of Scozzafava's voters had a favorable view of Hoffman, so they aren't going to come over easily, if at all. (EDIT: It's not clear if Scozzafava has in fact endorsed Hoffman, as the reporting is somewhat contradictory on this -- most sources, apart from the AP, say that she's made no endorsement.)

If I had to guess, I'd think that of Scozzafava's support, one-quarter of people don't vote, one-quarter vote for Scozzafava anyway, 30 percent defect to Hoffman and 20 percent defect to Owens. Extrapolating from the morning's Siena poll, that would produce a result of Hoffman 43, Owens 42, Scozzafava 5, with 10 percent of the voters still up for grabs.

Gun to my head? Sure, I'd take Hoffman at this point. But I'd also take the short side of the 67 percent odds that he's been given at Intrade.

(EDIT: If there's been no endorsement from Scozzafava, then I'm not sure that I'd necessarily give Hoffman any more of her votes than Owens. On the other hand, as I wrote yesterday, I think the enthusiasm/turnout side of the story may have been underplayed here and that dynamic benefits Hoffman.)

UPDATE (3:30 PM). Tom Jensen at PPP reports that he had a poll in the field this morning that was showing very good numbers for Hoffman, although how much emphasis we should give to unweighted, small-sample polling conducted on Halloween morning, I don't know. I would say that if Hoffman wins, it will tend to because of factors that were already in place before Scozzafava's withdraw.

...see also 2009 elections, ny-23

208 comments

shiloh said...
So if Owens would have won in a (3) way race it would have been embarrassing for Reps, but if Owens wins a (2) way race w/Hoffamn it will be really, really embarrassing for the party of No! er wingnuts!

carry on

October 31, 2009 12:32 PM



To: Cindy B. who wrote (524901)11/1/2009 12:11:21 PM
From: tejek  Respond to of 1580370
 
It's not just us paying higher taxes, it's getting out of control all over the country. People are starting to say we don't always have to pay higher taxes, how about cutting wasteful spending. Throwing more money at everything isn't the answer.

Of course throwing good money after bad is not the answer.......but arbitrarily cutting taxes because you all are upset is not the answer either.

What infuriates the hell out of me is that for 8 years you all were quiet as church mice when Bush was spending the country into oblivion. Its only now that Obama is president you all are screaming. Hypocrisy.....know they name!

Again, Doug has worked hard for what he has, knows what it's like to raise a family here and balance a checkbook

So what? That doesn't make him a good person nor the best guy to represent you all esp. when he uses you all to aggrandize his beliefs.

I'll take him over most lawyers or career politicians any day.

Of course you will.......I still say do some research.

You said: Read the editorial in the Watertown Daily Tmes? Do you think newspapers still print the truth without throwing in their own personal slant? You don't really believe everything you read, do you?

Of course not......only Doug tells the truth. Long after Doug is gone the Daily Times will still be there. I trust the person with the most vested interest.......in case you haven't figured that one out its the Daily Times.

I don't subscribe to that paper, but just heard they're endorsing the Democrat. So of course they're going to paint Doug in a negative light.

I've lived here all my life, I'll take someone who has grown up among us ( and has proven to be successful) over a career politician any day.


Doug didn't grow up among you.......most likely the editors of the Daily Times did.



To: Cindy B. who wrote (524901)11/1/2009 12:58:18 PM
From: tejek  Respond to of 1580370
 
Fury prods candidate from race

By FRED LEBRUN COMMENTARY
Sunday, November 1, 2009

It was a shocker to see Republican Dede Scozzafava pull the plug at the last minute on her campaign for the 23rd Congressional District seat vacated by John McHugh to become secretary of the Army.

Shocking, but not surprising. Her numbers among potential voters have been sinking in the past couple of weeks, while those of her two opponents, Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman and Democrat Bill Owen, have been climbing. According to the latest Siena poll of voters, Owen, at 36 percent, and Hoffman, at 35, are in a dead heat. Scozzafava, the region's assemblywoman, dropped to 20 percent.

More significantly, money had dried up for Scozzafava. The trend, with only a few days left in the race, sealed the deal. Dropping out made sense. Painful sense, but sense.

While Scozzafava is taking one for the party by clearing the field for Hoffman, her name remains on Tuesday's ballot. She released her supporters so they could donate and work for anyone else if they wished, but she did not tell them not to vote for her.

Good for her. It has to be galling to the nth degree to be a lifelong, faithful Republican and then to get chased off the ballot. Marginalized because she is cast as not Republican enough by high-profile outsider conservatives who have hijacked this contest and made a major national issue of it. What constitutes a good Republican has been imperiously redefined. That is, deep right or not at all. Moderates, line up against the wall.

Scozzafava was ripped apart in a savage advertising campaign. And the mud stuck.
Constituents who have known her for years began turning their backs, and here we are.

This has been an intensely Republican district since the 1870s, so it seems that with Scozzafava backing off, Hoffman should be a shoo-in. Ah, but beware of the shoo-in label. It doesn't always fit.

John McHugh was re-elected from this district by more than 60 percent of the vote every time out, and he was almost the same kind of Republican as Scozzafava. Moderate, a Rockefeller Republican, and not afraid to buck the more conservative elements of his party.

McHugh championed progressive action on acid rain and climate change issues, for instance, during the Bush administration, when the party line denied climate change altogether. If it were McHugh running again, he would have been easily re-elected.

The point here is that the natural scale of Republicanism in this North Country district, when you factor in colleges in Plattsburgh, Canton, Oswego, Potsdam and elsewhere, and past voting patterns, is moderate. Not deep right. They went for Obama, for goodness sake.

So there's no such thing as a shoo-in here. Remember, Jim Tedisco should have been a shoo-in down here in the 20th Congressional District special election a scant six months ago.

But an intensely negative campaign lambasting his opponent, Scott Murphy, backfired. As in the contest up north, the national big boys and girls took over the reins of the local campaign. It was disastrous for Tedisco.

We'll know soon enough how an intensely negative campaign, abetted by nightly haranguing on national talk radio, and the intrusion of the likes of the former Alaska governor and vice presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, plays out in the 23rd.
After the voters have their say. Oh, them. My sense is while the highly vocal cadre that supports Hoffman seems determined, there is a soft middle of undecideds who won't make up their mind until Tuesday. Now that Dede has stepped back, that soft middle is mighty big in my view.

How voters feel about being played for pawns on a national chessboard by those whose agendas have nothing to do with issues in the district has yet to be weighed where it counts.


And then there's the possible whiplash effect of too much negative advertising jarring local sensibilities.

That was the lesson of the Tedisco race. Then again, we might be getting a whole new set of lessons from this race that will do nothing to quell negative advertising in the future.

National Democrats are not unmindful of opportunity here as a result of all these conservative high jinks. They've poured money and talent into the Owen campaign. Even Vice President Joe Biden was making a last-minute pass through the district for Owen, a corporate lawyer from Plattsburgh.

Hoffman, a Lake Placid businessman, doesn't live in the district and won't be able to vote in this race, has his own big-name visitors. When he met recently with The Watertown Times editorial board, he was accompanied by Dick Armey of Texas, a former House majority leader. Hoffman reportedly became flustered and objected to the heated questioning at the session.

Armey sprang to his defense, dismissing regional concerns as "parochial" issues that wouldn't determine the course of the election. A mind-boggling corruption of Tip O'Neill's truism that all politics is local.

Sadly enough, considering the undeserved pounding Dede Scozzafava took while few came to her defense, and now her exit from the campaign, Armey may be right. It would be nice to think the voters will set him straight.

timesunion.com