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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LLCF who wrote (81815)	11/17/2009 2:34:36 PM
From: LLCF	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

to the board, especially would be mothers: Look up epigenetics. Everything the mother does while pregnant is VERY important in development...her attitude, emotions, what she eats. Development hinges on the mother (I know it's obvious on most levels, but it's interesting stuff anyway as to how profound it is). Example: <<The reason epigenetics is so important isn't because someday you'll be able to tag your baby's genes for blond hair, a composer's brain, or the ability to hurl a 98 mph fastball. It's because epigenetics teaches us this: The environment that you provide for your offspring -- through what you're eating, drinking, smoking, or stressing about -- is what your child will program herself to expect of the world she's entering. Based on what you're doing right now, she's forecasting her future environment. And if the programming for gene expression doesn't match that environment, problems can occur. So your challenge -- dare we say your responsibility -- is to provide little Dolly with a healthy environment now so that her "internal programming mechanism" predicts and can respond to a healthy environment later. Many of the tips we outline throughout the book arebased on this fundamental idea, but here we'll discuss some of the major things you can do right away to : {snip}: positively influence the way your baby's genes are expressed.>> DAK

To: LLCF who wrote (81815)	11/17/2009 3:03:33 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

My statement: <<The Human Fetus is a genetically distinct, (from the mother) new human being, that begins to exist at conception. It is not the mother, and the mother is not it, as you claimed. In Vitro Fertilization proves that.>> Your quote: "The Human Fetus is a genetically distinct,that begins to exist at conception.>>" Notice any difference? Just dishonest! <<It is not the mother, and the mother is not it, as you claimed. In Vitro Fertilization proves that.>> "They are NOT separate and CANNOT be separate for quite some time in development as the need for a mother DESPITE invitro fertilization shows." Foolish response. In Vitro Fertilization does show that the sperm and egg combine to produce a new Human being apart from any interaction with the mother. Surrogacy also shows that the biological mother is not necessary and cannot be equated with her offspring. How long will it be before a completely artificial environment will be developed that will allow the fetus to come to term completely apart from the mother? "<<scientists have discovered exactly how a mother's diet can permanently alter the functioning of genes in her offspring without changing the genes themselves. >>" No attribution and irrelevant to this issue. It does not follow from that, that the mother can be ontologically equated with the child. <"A zygote is the beginning of a new human being> "No one is arguing that point... somehow you seem unable to get that through thick skull..." You sure seem to be all worked up over it. You also seem to think that there is a difference between the "beginning of a new human being" and an actual Human being, but you refuse to answer the question I asked you of when you believe from a scientific point of view that a Human being becomes a Human being? Note I did not ask when we subjectively ascribe value to it but when from a scientific point it becomes a human being? "Further you avoid the reality that the MOTHERS body routinely decides to end development when it deems it proper... your material reductionist assertions would make this murder unless you can somehow explain otherwise." You keep repeating this fallacious assertion. The womans body does not make a conscious decision to do anything. The fact that you cannot distinguish between natural, passive abortion and elective, active abortion, demonstrates the truth of my contention, that you are unable to engage in any kind of serious moral reasoning.