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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (9223)	11/1/1997 1:11:00 PM
From: O'Hara	Respond to of 39621

><>...Jane, I know of what you speak...><> and there are I suppose pros and cons to the issue in general, however in everything a balance is most appropiate. After all it is in celebration of our God....Consider esp. 2 Chron.30:21 1 Chr 16:42 42 And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with musical instruments of God. And the sons of Jeduthun were porters. 2 Chr 5:13 13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; 2 Chr 30:21 21 And the children of Israel that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the LORD. (KJV) Ps 68:24-26 24 They have seen thy goings, O God; even the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary. 25 The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels. 26 Bless ye God in the congregations, even the Lord, from the fountain of Israel. Isa 38:20 20 The LORD was ready to save me: therefore we will sing my songs to the stringed instruments all the days of our life in the house of the LORD. Your point was well taken. Have a good day Shalom...><> BTW..Very interesting info on that leVay character....you know Jane what he said about his seeing satan worshipped on this earth is not far out.....he will be It is Written Rev 13:4 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? II Th 2:4 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (9223)	11/1/1997 2:13:00 PM
From: yard_man	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Jane. Appreciate your comments on behalf of the role of human voices in worship to God. I don't discount any role for instrumental music but see the emphasis on voice in scripture and beyond that "melody in our hearts." Interesting concept to think about, huh?! However, offering the alternative as steve mentions is vital. Music is an emotive and strongly reinforcing medium. In a spiritual sense we "are what we eat." (Remember that slogan from the old nutrition propaganda for youngsters.) I'm glad that Christians in all manner of their jobs can bring their talents to bear to encourage others. I recently took my son to his first movie -- please don't condemn me (we don't own a TV -- got rid of the thing as hopeless two years ago), I had a suspicion that we shouldn't go see the thing, but we did go. It was Disney's Hercules cartoon. There was much in the supposedly G-rated movie that was downright contrary to God. Disney would be rolling over in his grave if he knew what they were passing off as family entertainment these days. Anyway, this movie was bad on so many levels -- first it was strictly a flood of action no indication of contemplative thought on the part of the "hero." Hades was depicted in a more than sympathetic and humorous way. His two henchman were also depicted in a very sympathetic light as well. Hercule's romantic love, definitely not agape, was elevated as divine. On another level -- Disney simply "Americanized" the whole myth to the point that it was unrecognizable. To think that most kids sit in front of this kind of thing day-in and day-out boggles my mind. In a strange narcissistic twist two of Hades henchman turn up with Hercules paraphanelia as is probably merchandised in concert with the movie. Amazing. My wife and I both left the show disheartened. We won't be back to the movies with our son. People think I'm nuts for not having a TV, but I'm convinced we can find ways to be more productive with the lives God has given us. God bless you. Enjoy your posts and contributions here. Barry

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (9223)	11/1/1997 3:12:00 PM
From: hpeace	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 39621

Thank you, although we aren't trying to spread Christian Rock..we are spreading Christ through the rock. The alter call at the concert last nite was massive. I was like the first in the city to have a 13th floor elevators album, first to get Jefferson A/P, first Lead Zep., Grandfunk, BloodRock,and on and on . I listened only to classical til rock hit in the early 60's. I don't count much of the 50's stuff as rock. Elvis Preley menat nothing to me and I never bought even one of his albums or liked a single one of his songs. Then the fire hit me around 1980 and God said throw all my albums and tapes away. I had a collection that was worth maybe $20,000 to $30,000. I said "God, shouldn't I sell these and give the money to the church"..He said " rip them up and trash them" I did... He now has replaced it with one of the largest Christian collections in the area. When God hit me with the fire a demon of secular rock came out of me. I was exorcized. No one there but Jesus and me... No vomit either<ggg> But, a demon came out..let me tell you this is true... and since I was saved and loved God since I was 6 or 7 then their is no controversey with me "if a christian can have a demon in them or not" I gave seminars exposing secular rock for yrs. I have allot of Anton La Vey's stuff as proof of what the darkness is up to and I beleive the Eagles song was a reference to a church(building) of Satan founded in 1969 in San Francisco. I haven't done that seminar in 10 yrs.. what is the name of that song.."Hotel California" is all I can remember. I beleive your La Vey comment..I have it somewhere.. along with other proof. The Eagle song is only talking about when one of the churches (building ) was founded. heck the church of satan has been here for milliniums<gg> And since I beleive in the gap theory of creation then Satanism has been here for billions of yrs. Our family has no fault with othre christians but we listen only to christian music..all typesof christian, no secular. My teens don't listen to Micheal Jackson or Prince or any of that stuff and it's their choice not mine..I brain washed them from age zero. Music is very controversial. I think christians shouldn't be forced to change their styles. If you go to Chronicles and Kings and read about King David and the bands he had..you will find that it was soft some time..even the ministers couldn't minister the power of God was so strong. And, some times it was loud..I Kings 1:40 says the loudness cracked the ground. Other times it could be heard over the entire city. My guess is any religious person that heard King David's loud version and they didn't know what it was becasue it was behind a curtain... would brand it satanic....but , it was Holy and what God wanted at that time. Even the Wesleys who wrote 50,000 songs. Their music was branded as satanic at first becasue the beat and style was what played in the taverns and pubs at the time. Now, who could call John and Charles Wesley satanic in their music. Satan uses music to get the Body of Christ off target... Like I said in the beginning of this... you said spread Christian Rock...I said no..spread Christ through rock. Any christian group that is motivated by seling millions of albums instead of effecting millions of souls has the wrong motives. The beat isn't anything...it's the lyrics that either destory or bring life. And, the MOTIVE of the artist is important too. If KISS did a version of "Holy Holy Holy" I wouldn't buy it or listen to it. But, if a Christain took a Kiss song and changed a few words so the meanings pointed to Christ as Savior , then I would buy it and listen to it. Motives mean allot. But, my point is that christians are wired for a particular music. they shouldn't be criticized because they like slow worshipful songs of our Lord.. that's the way they like it... But, remember...King david has some pretty loud gigs too..check it out.. i don't think KISS ever got loud enough to crack the ground<ggg> I actually like all kinds of christian music..and listen to zero secular and guard myself against all secular music. I don't care if it's Bing Crosby or Neil Diamond..I ain't listening to it... But, I'm also not going to run around preaching burn your records. I would prefer to preach our Lord is King.. Build their relationship with the Holy Spirit. He can tell them if Bing Crosby is okay or not. It's one of those things i don't classify like premarital sex, of getting drunk, or driving and drinking, etc. etc. Those are over the line... but let God say Bing Crosby isn't good music.... not me. As to your drowning out all voices comment..Please reread Chronicles and Kings... I've never heard music as loud as they played it in those passages. If the church worship is of God, then it can be low volume or high volume and be inorder and not drown out voices. A church that preaches music over the King of Kings is just a country club anyway...a church that doesn't have real worship is missing something.... our church has drums and the whole 9 yards...but, there have been times when after the worship that the pastor could not minister because the Holy Spirit fell upon us and all we could do is cry out to God..all we could do is weep for the darkness upon this earth. It all comes down to personal perference on music since the scriptures in Esphesians are misinterpreted as meaning no musical instruments in church. One of the greek words for what's used is an instrument that is twanged. But, Satan uses music to divide the church. I'll not be part of that. My response to the preacher whose sermon blast guitars in church becasue the bible doesn't mention guitars and especially "electric" guitars is " can you turn your microphone down alittle, I think it's applified too high"<ggggg> There is noevil beat..beats are like cars or guns or anything else. Paul's clear that things are not good or evil in themselves. But, lyrics of songs speak for themselves and the motives of anything are important... Anton LaVey promised to try to destroy the church with impure sex and money more than music. Anton promised to destroy the church with secular music. If you ask me if you are reading a song and it's not coming from your heart in service,...then it ain't worship At our church we have musicains and a leader of worship but worship is not a spectator sport. The entire congregation worships. the band and the leader are there only as instruments of that worship, they aren't the end or the means. The congregation is the worhsip. The leaders aren't what we revere or worship. We "as one" hold up Jesus and that draws the lost and the sinner to repent. Our church has grown from 200 in 1993 when God moved us here to almost 4000 now. Mostly new christians. the lost, the hungry, the wounded, the bank president, the homeless....and it's all colors black, white, tan,yellow..you name it.. I had a friend tell me once 12 or so yrs. ago when a girl got saved at his church and she had either green or pink hair(it was dyed and I forgot which). He was complaining to me "she needs to change that hair, how is a girl with pink hair going to witness to anyone?" I was about to say i don't know....but suddenly the Holy Spirit took over and I said "I would imagine that she could witness pretty good to another girl with pink hair". I was starting to prepare to have to debate this friend on this statement and whether it was true are not becasue he was so adamant about this girl was still a heathen because her hair was pink. But, it must have been God who gave me those words because he said " you know, i think you're right" The test is always simple... you know it by it's Fruit. Last nite hundreds of kids wanted to get closer to God. last night we had a large audience wanting to get close to God not do drugs or sex or halloween.