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To: Travis_Bickle who wrote (126421)	12/5/2009 12:37:10 PM
From: cosmicforce	Respond to of 543451

<prayer tends to be engaged in by morons> That seemed a little harsh. I'd say if you were to find yourself with engine trouble in the mid-Pacific, praying that things hold together long enough to make it to the nearest island is harmless, and maybe even beneficial (though IMO not for the obvious reasons). Prayer could provide a calmness or trust that allows you to wrest control of the situation. It is probably just an evolutionary trait to continue struggling against insurmountable odds. It is a trick of the mind and no doubt the flier who prevails will after the fact attribute it to God, never mind that it is really a game of percentages. Meditation may not be possible in this plane emergency situation - the flier may not be able to clear his or her mind of distraction as turbine blades are flying through the cowling. One could meditate upon why one found themselves in the situation in the first place, but I don't think that would be useful until you landed. Edit: Compare with "There are no atheists in foxholes." which is a lie. I'm only saying that SOME (or even MOST) people resort to prayer and it may help them. If you don't believe in God, you may need to find strength through another mechanism. ffrf.org

To: Travis_Bickle who wrote (126421)	12/5/2009 1:48:08 PM
From: freelyhovering	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543451

I know lots of 'non-morons' who pray and I believe that it is useful to them in order to maintain their sense of connectedness to the God they believe in and a sense of calm and purpose. I only have trouble with praying people who are also prejudiced and vocal against all that is not just like them. Those are the morons. Some of my non-moronic praying friends and relatives keep their belief in "their all-mighty God" as the only one as a private belief. At least I have trained them to be that way at holidays. <g>

To: Travis_Bickle who wrote (126421)	12/5/2009 6:49:19 PM
From: denizen48	Respond to of 543451

To me, prayer is just my being aware of God & my mortality, ie life. Not part of any religious category, just the realization of my tiny being & God's strange ways.

To: Travis_Bickle who wrote (126421)	12/6/2009 3:34:42 AM
From: Cogito	Respond to of 543451

>>When you pray you are praying "for" something, even if it is praying for serenity to accept the things you cannot change; i.e. it is an expression of your dissatisfaction with the universe as it is. Prayer is a form of complaint. ... Also, prayer tends to be engaged in by morons.<< Seminole - There are prayers of gratitude, too. Or prayers along the line of "please grant me knowledge of your will for me and the power to carry it out." Not exactly a complaint, I wouldn't say. And while I would not dispute that prayer is engaged in by some people I would probably consider morons, I'd also have to say that it is engaged in by plenty of people who aren't morons. I engage in it myself, despite not really believing that there's any entity outside of myself listening, necessarily. I neither complain nor make requests when I pray, mostly because I don't think there's any point to that. - Allen