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To: LoneClone who wrote (126208)	12/5/2009 3:17:34 PM
From: tom pope	8 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 206089

I was listening to the BBC in the car a few minutes ago, with a group in the global warming camp dismissing the East Anglia e-mails. There were other data bases (true) and the science remains robust. I don't think the East Anglia caper can be dismissed so readily - if the science is so robust, why was it necessary for them to embellish their data? The Global Warmers' weakest point has been their unwillingness to even consider other points of view. The matter has been settled, there is nothing to discuss. Intransigent unanimity is not a basis for sound public discussion, and suggests the GW case may not be as strong as its proponents insist.

To: LoneClone who wrote (126208)	12/5/2009 4:10:30 PM
From: The Reaper	9 Recommendations Respond to of 206089

When someone explains to me how man-made CO2 accounted for the medieval warming period, I'll start giving some credence to the man-made CO2 argument.

To: LoneClone who wrote (126208)	12/5/2009 8:08:04 PM
From: Umunhum	21 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 206089

You have no understanding of how science works. There are many things that I don’t understand. Several years ago while vacationing on Koh Samui, I met an Indian research scientist from Singapore. I forget his exact title but after some conversation with him, I could tell that he was a very bright individual. I asked him what he was working on currently and he said he was comparing the nutritional value of Palm Oil vs. Soybean Oil. And so the next question obviously was which one was better? And he replied, “It depends on who is paying for the study.” Now one could say such an ambiguity could exist when comparing different vegetable oils. One oil has more vitamin A than the other and visa versa for vitamin E etc. The world temperatures are a measurement. But if that is so, then I don’t understand how the IPCC can put this chart out in 1990: regmedia.co.uk And then later this chart in 2001: regmedia.co.uk Taken from: theregister.co.uk The charts display roughly the same time period, both were produced by the same organization but the temperatures have changed dramatically in 11 years. How is this possible? And then we get this chart from Steve McIntyre after removing Mann’s “tricks” (Fraud): blogs.news.com.au Taken from: blogs.news.com.au In order to see why there is such of difference, we need to get the original data and the methodology that went into creating these charts. I don’t understand how one scientist could come up with a chart of New Zealand Temperatures like this one: briefingroom.typepad.com And another scientist a chart like this one for the same time period: briefingroom.typepad.com Taken from: wattsupwiththat.com Why are the charts different? It is relatively easy to find out. We compared raw data for each station (from NIWA’s web site) with the adjusted official data, which we obtained from one of Dr Salinger’s colleagues. Requests for this information from Dr Salinger himself over the years, by different scientists, have long gone unanswered, but now we might discover the truth. Proof of man-made warming What did we find? First, the station histories are unremarkable. There are no reasons for any large corrections. But we were astonished to find that strong adjustments have indeed been made. About half the adjustments actually created a warming trend where none existed; the other half greatly exaggerated existing warming. All the adjustments increased or even created a warming trend, with only one (Dunedin) going the other way and slightly reducing the original trend. The shocking truth is that the oldest readings have been cranked way down and later readings artificially lifted to give a false impression of warming, as documented below. There is nothing in the station histories to warrant these adjustments and to date Dr Salinger and NIWA have not revealed why they did this. One station, Hokitika, had its early temperatures reduced by a huge 1.3°C, creating strong warming from a mild cooling, yet there’s no apparent reason for it. We have discovered that the warming in New Zealand over the past 156 years was indeed man-made, but it had nothing to do with emissions of CO2—it was created by man-made adjustments of the temperature. It’s a disgrace. Manipulation of raw data is at the heart of recent claims of corrupt scientific practice in climate science, with CRU’s Phil Jones recently claiming old temperature records collected by his organization were “destroyed” or “lost”, meaning researchers can now only access manipulated data. ........... Why is it that every time we get the raw data and methodology we find out there is Fraud to promote the idea of far hotter temperatures than exist? I personally think the IPCC should be dismantled and all their work thrown out. And if you read this, I’m sure you would agree: scienceandpublicpolicy.org I don’t know why Al Gore would cancel his presentation at the Global Warming Fraudsters Convention. This is similar to the Pope saying that he isn’t going to give a Christmas Mass. I can speculate that he is worried about a possible criminal investigation and therefore doesn’t want to incriminate himself further. I don’t know why Obama changed the dates he is attending the Global Warming Fraudsters Convention. I read the press release that states that he wants to go at the end of the conference when a deal is more likely to be reached, but my gut tells me it is more likely that he doesn’t know which way the political wind is going to blow yet. I also don’t understand how anyone can believe in the Global Warming Fraud at this point. If you’re worried about the Maldives (more Global Warming Fraud Propaganda), read this article and it will set your mind at ease: network.nationalpost.com