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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (126533)	12/7/2009 12:46:52 AM
From: Cogito	Respond to of 543022

>>I did not mean an organized religion religious commitment- I meant the program itself becomes a religion. My dad tried to quit alcohol many times, and he tried to do the 12 step thing- but you have to believe in the higher power, of some sort, and you also have to believe in the 12 step program itself. You don't believe, it doesn't work.<< B - I guess it depends on what you mean by religion. I think that for some people, AA (and NA, etc.) can be like a religion. I don't see AA that way, in that nobody tells you what you have to believe. And as I've said, there are many people who get sober and clean in twelve step programs without believing in any kind of god. In my experience, it does help to believe that the program itself can work. But I'm not sure how that's different from anything else one needs to put some effort into. As an example, if you don't believe high school can help you in any way, you're not likely to get much benefit from it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in twelve step programs, you don't have to believe in anything that you can't see with your own eyes in order to get clean and/or sober. - Allen