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To: Gib Bogle who wrote (71513)	12/8/2009 1:36:28 AM
From: marcos	Respond to of 74559

You i couldn't peg on elmat's thread, from not lurking there for some time, had to go on dim memory ... you do a lot of common sense Gib, correction of fact and a bit of puncturing yes, concise to the point of spare, where every word works ... partisan to the left [?] - think you might have punctured some on the right-hand side who might have preferred to roll on at full inflation? ... there is always the risk We should be SIers here first, allegiance to facts and logic, civilised forms of behaviour, something above parliamentary because in practise that's too juvenile, and we'll be around here longer than they will last there ... you never know when your opponent on one issue will be your ally on another, got to think ahead ... division on nationalistic lines seems particularly silly when i consider that most of the assholes i ever knew were british columbians, for the simple reason that this is where i've spent most adult life, but from experience elsewhere it seems that there are roughly the same proportion all over, and nothing like the internet to broaden one's horizons on that, lol ... there's got to be some more effective basis than nationality Global warming, ossified right/left politics, existence of any particular god, and all matters of this type - i'm agnostic, and will remain so until somebody 1. phrases the questions more intelligently, and 2. provides some evidence ... there usually seems to be a more rational path that few if any support, and not necessarily down the middle, often way out to the side Here's an issue - what shall we do about the Magna Carta, chuck it as they've done in its homeland, or have Bob Dylan re-write it so the spirit comes through in the vernacular? ... think we might guess how Ambrose E-P would vote - Message 26159320

To: Gib Bogle who wrote (71513)	12/8/2009 8:45:03 AM
From: Maurice Winn	3 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Gib, to be issued a True Socialist membership card, it's required to be a True Believer in Global Warm-mongering. As scientist/engineers, we should be grateful that a political system has adopted physics as part of their mantra. Unfortunately, their desire for the intellectual patina of science is misused. As with so much in politics, they take a little bit of truthiness then expand it to cosmic proportions, stretching it in all directions, covering everything. Look at Maoriism in NZ for example and the "principles of Te Tirit" which permeate everything and require great cash flows to the right people from producers. The socialists are excited to sort of understand something sciency, which was a brainy subject at school which they had trouble with so studied Gender Relationships and Psychosocial Conditioning Paradigms in Pre-cognitive Neuronomic Development at university. They have a need to feel intellectual and bossy, not to mention kleptocratic because money is good and lots of it better [especially money earned by other people]. The sciency subject of CO2 is definitely intellectual, certainly enables much bossiness and the loot is unbelievable if they can pull it off. <contrary to the conclusions enthusiastically leapt to by a couple of SI posters, I have always been uncommitted on the issue of GW, in fact most of my statements on the subject over the last few years have been decidedly skeptical > It does make one feel snobbish when those scientific yokels start spouting their CO2 so-called "science" which they claim is settled [which is laughable]. But you have to swallow it to maintain your socialist membership in good standing. It's amusing to me that a matter of science and physics, chemistry and causation; purely a matter of facts, has become a touchstone of political ideology. It was only in recent years that I realized that a belief in a matter of physics had become a matter of political ideology. But then, there is a long history of such things, with that bloke Galileo Galilei en.wikipedia.org being sent to the Inquisition for thinking that Earth goes around the sun, rather than the reverse [which was as obvious to the Inquisitors as Global Warming physics because the sun comes up over there, goes quickly over the sky, around to the other side, and back up again]. One would think a mere matter of physics wouldn't be so fanatically held by a theological institution supposedly interested in metaphysics of the mind, soul, ethics, abstract. But here we are again with talk of beating up heretics, gaoling blasphemers, comparing coal trains with Auschwitz rail, excommunicating apostates, hanging heretics. [Admittedly I made up the last one but it sounds good so I'm sure they'd adopt it if they think of it because it's nicely alliterative which gives truthiness]. Rescuing people from cult beliefs is difficult because the need for identity and belonging is so strong, not to mention cash flow. Stockholm Syndrome is inherently a tendency of humans after millions of years of primate alpha male territorial conquistador dominance hierarchy - it's in our genes. Deprogramming people is difficult and involves some of that aforementioned psychosocial conditioning blather = they need a better rock to cling to. Mqurice