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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (71706)12/14/2009 6:05:07 PM
From: Gib Bogle5 Recommendations  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 74559
 
The latest NY Review of Books has a piece by David Shulman, professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, entitled Israel Without Illusions.
nybooks.com
Unfortunately it isn't available free online. The content of the article is consistent with many other pieces I've read about the plight of the Palestinians, most of these articles written by dissident Israelis. This quote from the article is relevant:

"I do not believe that a society can disenfranchise, dispossess, and effectively dehumanize large numbers of people living between Junin and Hebron without this process influencing the way it conducts a war in Gaza. No one who regularly visits the Palestinian territories controlled by Israel has to speculate about whether or not Israel is engaged in the routine abuse of human rights."

As to your line of argument - the Germans were genocidal murderers, therefore it is "hideous" to point at that their main victims, Jews, are also capable of inhumane behaviour - well, it isn't very logical. The racist and callous way you characterize Arabs, while lauding the Israelis for their benevolence towards the people they've dispossessed, and continue to dispossess through the illegal settlement program, shows either gross ignorance or something worse.

Your attempt at ad hominem dismissal was a bit weak, too. BTW, "Bogle" is a Scottish name.



To: Maurice Winn who wrote (71706)12/14/2009 8:49:40 PM
From: marcos5 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559
 
Liebensraum would translate as 'room for loving', and zionists are not simply off to the brothel for the evening, they are systematically thieving the homes and land of indigenous people, gaoling torturing and killing at will, this is at least as important to the individual palestinian victim as it will be to a victim of the nazis or of the Peking regime in Tibet or Uighurstan ... and like the latter, it is happening now, today, a continuous process intensified since the mid-'40s

Term you were looking for is Lebensraum, and yes indeed there is an Ostplan to zionism, it is every bit the ethnic cleansing scenario the other was ... just read statements by its leaders, Ben-Gurion for instance, Dayan, Jabotinsky, many others, they were always plain about their intentions, small wonder that people indigenous to the area react negatively - much as we like aucklanders around here, you bring an armed invasion of them to our shore with intention of wiping us out and taking our land, my neighbours and i will get positively hostile

'Arabs have invaded Israel' - horseshit, it's taking place in Palestine not Europe, from where came shiploads of zionist personnel and materiel starting after 1917 and accelerating in the '40s ... every action since has been stimulated by this invasion, and almost all have been directly started by the invaders, single exception being 1973 where Jordan and Egypt were trying to regain their own territory lost to the invaders in 1967 ... the defenders may not fight brilliantly, but you cannot say their cause is less than righteous

Do we really need to do the zionist invaders vs palestinian indigenous thing here? ... you promoters of the thievery never seem to learn anything, and there are no arabs present, just you murdering scum and a few objective thoughtful dispassionate neutral observers like Gib and i ... hardly seems any point ... and btw, it is quite wrong to tar the entire jewish people with these crimes - jewsagainstzionism.com