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Politics : Politics of Energy -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: RetiredNow who wrote (15516)	12/19/2009 12:04:24 AM
From: The Vet	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 86356

Prove to me that those temperature variations are not moving outside the upper control limit. I'm curious about this upper control limit as well. Who determined it? What factors determine it? Is it a temperature, a percentage of gas or a combination? What are the values that trigger it? What happens if it is exceeded? What controls it, or prevents infinite "runaway" if exceeded? Has it ever been exceeded in the past? If so, what happened? If not, why not? Can someone just answer the questions and provide scientific references and a logical explanation of each point and I promise to be a convert to the "new religion" of AGW.

To: RetiredNow who wrote (15516)	12/19/2009 10:14:21 AM
From: Brumar89	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 86356

I repeat - I don't have to prove that climate alarmism isn't true. The burden of proof is on those making claims that mankind is causing most climate variation today. As for the general proposition that natural causes are responsible for climate variation, I will simply point out that climate variation has been going on for millions of years and mankind hasn't been around or has been too powerless to make big changes to the natural environment for most of the earth's history. Show me the mean temperature and 3 sigma on either side and show me what natural processes are moving the temperatures up and down. Prove to me that those temperature variations are not moving outside the upper control limit. No. Its your job to tell us the mean temperature over whatever base period you choose and what the 3 sigma boundaries are. Look we all know you can't do this and therefore your assertions are based on nothing more than your imagination and not on any observation or any statistical considerations. This does NOT go both ways. The burden of proof is on those making a claim. You've made a claim. But not offered any information to support the claim. Once you've provided the information - the mean, the base period, the standard deviation .... I'll consider and critique it. If you're right, I'll even agree with you.