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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272156)12/26/2009 2:29:48 PM
From: SARMAN  Respond to of 281500
 
Obviously not even a fraction of how far YOU HAVE GONE to justify, or avoiding acknowledgment of, the crimes being committed PUBLICLY AND OPENLY by militants who claim to represent the Muslim faith.
That is BS and you know it. You are nothing but a traitor Zionist stooge. You are willing to allow Americans to be killed for the sake of Israel.

You just offer unsubstantiated, and illogical, allegations as "proof" of Israel's crimes....
Please do not be a hypocrite. You want to unleash democracy on the world, yet you can not see how Israel is committing crimes. You are a hypocrite and a Zionist tool. Please do not bore us with the bullshit that you are doing the world a favor. Your agenda is clear, killing Muslims is your aim. You have been exposed to what you truly are. You are a traitor that is willing to kill Americans for the sake of Israel. Get you head out of Israel's ass and read this. siliconinvestor.com
Right out the horse's mouth www2.ohchr.org

YET.. when I present you the OPENLY HOSTILE DECLARATIONS FOR A WAR OF CONQUEST MADE BY MILITANT LEADERS IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, YOU EITHER IGNORE IT, OR OFFER IRRELEVANT ROMAN QUOTATIONS.

Every time you attempt to deflect from such public proclamations by these maniacs, we can only be more convinced that you allegiance lies with their cause.

Moron, read what you write. You exhibit the ultimate stupidity. Again you are the enemy within, you are willing to put American live on the line, for Israel's benefits. The threat that you talk about is in your head.
archive.org

And yes these are powerful word that describes you and Zionists.
The ENEMY Within

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it
cannot survive treason from WITHIN. An ENEMY at the gates is
less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner
openly. But the traitor moves amongst those WITHIN the gate
freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys,
heard in the very halls of government itself.

For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents
familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their
arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the
hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of
the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer
resist. A murder is less to fear .

~ Cicero Marcus Tullius



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272156)12/26/2009 2:36:59 PM
From: Peter Dierks1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
YOU, are the enemy within..

Is sarman within? It has admitted to being paid by terrorist organizations. Is it even residing within the US?

There is no question that sarman is the enemy.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272156)12/26/2009 3:32:43 PM
From: SARMAN  Respond to of 281500
 
Israeli army murders six Palestinians in cold blood
From Khalid Amayreh in the West Bank

uruknet.info
December 26, 2009

NABLUS, (PIC)-- In an ominous sign indicating that a fresh cycle of bloodshed may be in the offing in the West Bank, Israeli occupation forces on Saturday murdered in cold blood three Palestinians in the city of Nablus, shuttering a relative calm lasting for several months.

Three more Palestinians youths were killed Saturday morning in the northern Gaza Strip as they were reportedly walking by a security wall.

The Israeli army said the three were suspected of trying to infiltrate the borders between the Gaza Strip and the Israeli territories occupied in 1948.

In Nablus where security coordination between the Palestinian Authority (PA) and the Israeli army was often described as exemplary, Israeli forces, backed by armored vehicles, killed three Fatah members, including an officer in the Preventive Security Force (PSF) who had been pardoned by the Shin Beth, Israel’s chief domestic security agency.

The three are Adnan Subh, 33, Raed Abdul Jabbar al-Sarkaji, 38, and Ghassan Abu Sharkh, a brother of Nayef Abu Sharkh, the former head of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades in Nablus who was killed several years ago.

Eyewitnesses said a large number of Israeli military vehicles stormed the city of Nablus, (pop.150,000) shortly before dawn, placing the town under curfew. The troops then surrounded a residential building in the Ras El-Ein neighborhood where Adnan Subh and his family were living.

A former member of Fatah’s armed wing, the Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Subh was shot dead as he emerged unarmed after the forces ordered him to surrender.

His brother Nidal Subh described the killing as "execution."

Similarly, eyewitnesses and relatives reported that the invading forces murdered in cold blood Ra’ed Sarkaji in full view of his wife and children. When his wife sought to shield him, soldiers fired at her feet and legs.

The Governor of Nablus, Jibril Bakri, described the Israeli operation as a "full-fledged crime." He called on "international institutions" to intervene to end the siege clamped down on the Subh family home.

An Israeli army spokesman said the three people assassinated were members of the Aqsa Martyrs Brigades who had carried out "terrorist acts" against Israelis and Israeli targets.

The three had reportedly been assured by the PA security authorities that they were no longer "wanted" by the Israeli army and that they could resume their normal life.

The manner in which the operation was carried out shows that the PA security forces, estimated at 70,000 troops, are completely neutralized whenever Palestinian population centers are invaded by the Israeli army.

PA officials repeatedly claimed that the main purpose of national security forces was to protect the interests of the Palestinian people.

However, Israeli operations in the heart of Palestinian towns, where thousands of American-trained PA troops are deployed, cause a lot of embarrassment to the PA leadership, especially the western-backed government headed by Salam Fayyad.

There are indications that disenchanted Fatah activists might try to avenge the latest killings as the PA regime stands completely powerless to stop the murder of Palestinians by the Israeli army.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272156)12/26/2009 3:34:00 PM
From: SARMAN  Respond to of 281500
 
You just offer unsubstantiated, and illogical, allegations as "proof" of Israel's crimes....
uruknet.de



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272156)12/26/2009 5:00:00 PM
From: Garden Rose2 Recommendations  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Hawk, there's a big difference between " OPENLY HOSTILE DECLARATIONS FOR A WAR" and putting your money where your mouth is like actually creating a war. The so-called terrorists you speak of always make threats, however, it is the USA that carries out the wars and killings. Take for example, Iraq, a sovereign nation; take for example Afghanistan, a sovereign nation; take for example Pakistan, a sovereign nation; IT IS THE USA THAT HAS SENT ARMIES TO KILL, SENT UNMANNED CRAFT TO KILL, AND CONTINUES TO DO SO.

In comparison to the trivial threats by the boogeymen in your head that you throw around on this board, I'd say the USA's terrorism is far more effective, wouldn't you? Who has killed more people and invaded other people's land, the USA or the boogeymen? A lot more dead bodies caused by us than the chattering Taliban and AlQueda put together.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272156)12/26/2009 6:04:55 PM
From: SARMAN  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Speaking of hypocrisy, why do we need the School of the Americas or what is called now, Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Oops, are we training terrorist and dictatorships? Ye without sin shall cast the first stone.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272156)12/26/2009 6:10:40 PM
From: SARMAN  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Why are we still supporting the Egyptian government?

Egypt's Coptic Christians battle for ID cards

By Christian Fraser
BBC News, Cairo

In the grounds of one of the city's oldest Christian churches, Girgis Gabriel Girgis is tattooing a baby girl.

She is very young, only about three years old, and branding the blue cross onto the girl's inside wrist brings a piercing shrill scream.

But for these parents, this is a proud moment. The tattoo symbolises community and identity.

Others queue patiently as Girgis wipes away the dye to reveal a tiny Coptic cross.

They all shout "Allah!", which is the Arabic for God whether you're Christian or Muslim.

There are plenty more who want to be inscribed indelibly as Coptic Christians.

"The tattoo was once used to identify Christian orphans whose parents had been killed in war," said Girgis. "So they wouldn't be brought up as Muslims!"

Ayman Raafat Zaki, 22, also bears a cross.

He has been a member of St Michael's church in Cairo for nine years and he is now an altar boy.

Every Sunday, dressed in his white robes, he helps lead a large Christian congregation.

He chants readings from the Bible, as the young boys circle the church, spreading thick plumes of fragrant incense.

And yet Ayman's overt spirituality - and his tattoo - are not enough to convince the state he is a Christian.

Ayman's father converted to Islam so he could divorce his wife when Ayman was just five months old.

Ayman's mother took her only child and fled the family's village for Cairo.

In Islam, the father determines the religion of his children.

And now - even as an adult - Ayman is denied by the state the Christian identity card he craves.

"Since the age of 16, I have been living an anonymous life," he said.

"In the eyes of the I state, I don't exist. They are trying to force me to become a Muslim by accepting a Muslim identity card. But it was my father's decision to convert. Not mine."

"I'd rather die than accept a Muslim identity card. It is plainly obvious to anyone here I am a practising Christian," he says.

Christians in Egypt comprise about 10% of the country's 80 million people.

But in a predominantly Islamic society, the Copts say they are are being increasingly marginalised.

Forced conversion claims

Identity cards carrying details of a person's religion are required by law in Egypt for employment, education, and access to any public services.

International rights groups say they are also used to discriminate in areas such as employment.

There are other cases involving claims of violent, forced conversion to Islam.

Nahla, whose identity we have protected, says she left home to escape her abusive family.

She moved in with her sister, who had converted to Islam in order to marry a Muslim man.

Within a month of moving in, Nahla's brother-in-law announced he had found her a Muslim husband and pressured her to convert.

After she refused to submit, her brother-in-law reported her to the police and they took her to a police station where she was beaten, she alleges.

Nahla eventually ran away from her Muslim husband, and has now remarried a Christian.

Her children are Christian, she is a regular at her Coptic church, yet she is refused a identity card that says she is Christian by the state.

"You need a card for everything in Egypt, even to be buried," she says.

EGYPT'S CHRISTIANS
# About 10% of Egypt's 80 million people are Christians
# Egyptian Christians are known as Copts, a word derived from the Greek word Aigyptos, meaning Egypt
# The Christian community is divided into: Coptic Orthodox, Coptic Catholics, Coptic Evangelicans (Protestants) and other minorities
# They have their own pope, Pope Shenouda III

"Where will they put me when I die? I don't want to be put in a Muslim grave."

In this country, the allegations of forced conversion are hugely divisive, even explosive.

In villages where Christians and Muslims live together, there have been riots over the issue.

Last month, a new report by Christian Solidarity International and the Coptic Foundation for Human Rights documented 25 cases of alleged forced conversion - and criticised the government for ignoring the cases.

But the report has many detractors who argue that it fails to grasp the realities on the ground.

Youssef Sidhoum, the editor of a well-respected Christian newspaper, says the allegations are always difficult to prove.

Often, he says, they are love stories that have gone wrong.

Very often they are not kidnapping or forced conversions, but relationships between Christian girls and Muslim boys.

Sometimes it is their parents who say they have been kidnapped in order to hide their shame, when in fact the girl has married a Muslim of her own choice.

"They tend to exaggerate the cases," he said.

"We have investigated lots of cases, again and again. This is an important issue to us and we go wherever the cases are.

"But I don't recall since 1997 more than three definite cases where we had clear evidence that there was kidnap and forced conversion."

But despite the complexities of alleged forced conversion cases, he and other Christians believe anyone wanting to change their official identity back from Muslim to Christian should be able to do so freely.

'Two choices'

There are cases where the Egyptian government plays a direct hand, forcing people to retain a Muslim identity against their wishes.

Lawyer Peter Ramses Al Nagar says he is now representing 3,200 Christians who are forced to live under a Muslim identity.

"The law says when a person becomes 16 years old, when they must get an identity card, he or she has the right to take papers from the church to prove they are Christian.

"But there are people who have taken these papers to the interior ministry and they have been told they have two choices.

"Either they take a Muslim identity card or they live without an identity card, which is a major, major problem."

There have been cases where people in the same position as Ayman and Nahla have successfully challenged the state in court, but very often the interior ministry simply ignores the ruling.

And more recently, courts have tended to take the side of government lawyers, who argue that a return to Christianity is apostasy.

Under some interpretations of Islamic law, apostasy - conversion from Islam - is punishable by death.

According to Human Rights Watch, such conversions are not banned under Egyptian law, but the courts have viewed rulings that would be perceived as sanctioning them as potential offences against public order.

The BBC did ask the interior ministry for a response to our investigation, but after three weeks we have had no answer.

No government representative has been put forward for comment.
Story from BBC NEWS:
news.bbc.co.uk