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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (272555)	1/8/2010 12:32:37 PM
From: Hawkmoon	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

You've been willing to accept even the most insane claims of jihadist on face value Dude.. that's WHAT THEY ARE SAYING. Are we supposed to take their proclamations stating their intent to wage global Jihad to claim the "Dar Al-Harb" and convert it to "Dar Al-Islam" as mere rhetoric? atheism.about.com islamizationwatch.blogspot.com That's FOOLISH! They BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY and we'd damn well better pay attention and not try to re-interpret it. Now.. what they say and what they can actually manage to accomplish are two different things. But if we (both "infidel" and moderate/secular Muslims) do nothing to thwart the militant agenda, then what is there to stop its growth? Like I've stated elsewhere, it's about the identity crisis within Islam and restoration of self-esteem and finding a place in this world. For 500+ years the Muslim world was defined as by the agenda of the Ottoman Empire. The defeat of that empire as left the Muslim (at least Arab) world divided and unable to integrate into a Western dominated culture. It's clear what the Muslim militants want. They sincerely believe that are "fighting the good fight" by waging Jihad to bring the planet under "Dar Al-Islam". They think they are the only means by which to bring about moral purity and the "will of Allah". And this isn't much different than the agenda of many fundamentalist Christians (Moral Majority comes to mind) and other faiths to restore fundamental "wholesome" values. Many of them attempt to "force" morality via the legislative process. But you don't wage a spiritual battle for souls with weapons of war. If your religion is so pertinent to the lives of human beings, you shouldn't need to force them to convert to your faith. As for "Through Our Enemies' Eyes", it looks interesting and I read some of the previewed pages that were available. Thus far, I see nothing to disagree with, although I take issue with trying to moralize Bin Ladin's "holy warrior" mentality with that of John Brown who applied his version of Christian militancy to the abolitionist movement on the belief that no man should be the property of another. I personally think that what John Brown believed was worth fighting for. His means of making his point may have been extreme, but few of us can deny that his was, indeed, a "good fight". He was defending freedom for his fellow man, regardless of color or creed. I feel the same way about democratic values. I reject the mantra that we're trying to "impose democracy". That's just utter BS and it's pitiful when I hear or read some moron attempting to make such an assertion. Democracy equates to freedom. And you don't impose freedom, you unleash it. And it's worth fighting, and dying, for. It's the very BASIS for the existence of the United States of America. I'm not ashamed to be willing to use military force to defend ourselves from those would seek to deny us those freedoms, especially the freedom of religion. And I'm not ashamed to assist other people to unleash freedom for themselves and their posterity, especially if it serves to protect our own freedoms as a result. I'm not ashamed to help these people end their enslavement to an intolerant political/theological power elite who seek to dictate and control how people live their lives. So long as the root causes are not addressed, we'll be engaged in endless wars I'm still waiting for your analysis of the "root causes" and potential solutions aimed at resolving them. I took a good bit of time responding to your request and it would be respectful for you to offer your own. That's called a dialog. Hawk