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To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/15/2010 4:37:50 PM
From: roguedolphin	2 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

Remember what Gary Allen said in “None Dare Call It Conspiracy?” “Communism is really about monopoly capitalism.” ....They just looted the U.S. Treasury and socialized 40% of the U.S. economy, if that's not worthy of a rant - what is? SOTB Message 26248546

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/15/2010 5:15:07 PM
From: benwood	3 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

Good post. I happen to agree about the conspiracy bit, for the most part. Sure, there's a multinational group of elites etc. etc. But here affecting 99.9% is just basic human nature. The 80s were the "me" decade and it has gotten worse since. There isn't a room full of bankers calling the shots: there are a thousand rooms of bankers, miners, manufacturers, developers, etc. who individually want bigger homes and more cars and a fatter retirement. They are in a race to the top. The basic tenants of society ebb and flow, but presiding over the movements at all times: fear and greed, in different proportion. An outcropping of that is that when times are visibly tough, some with high integrity and a belief that they want to live in a world of fairness and we're in this together will do run a business like Ben & Jerry's (before the takeover) -- the CEO will earn 7x the lowest paying floor position. And at other times, where sheer unadulterated greed, avarice and entitlement prevail, peons amass debt in the hundreds of thousands and leaders earn 100 to 100,000 times the lowest paid worker of their company. It's a sign of the times. We are at an extreme, and since it is our public and private leadership behaving in tandem in that manner, it makes sense to run up trillions of dollars of public debt for the benefit of few, in that alternate reality of mind altering drugs perhaps, but the cost of this escalation in our cost structure is that we will lose our jobs and we will lose our buying power and the masses at least will have a setback in their way of life, not to the early 90s when the bubbles began but to the 70s or earlier. Everything will be back in balance in another 20 to 30 years. I don't think the problem is stupidity -- it's greed and entitlement. And for individuals, entitlement goes hand in hand with laziness. The solution to being perpetually lazy is being poor (literally, barely able to make ends meet by any means), feeling hunger, being cold. Those days have already arrived for many, and their ranks will swell. Anyway, long comment but I liked your post. Nothing beats common sense, personal integrity, hard work, and realistic planning. In the long run. In the short run, we are saps. So you are better off financially. For now... historically, those that have royally effed up sometimes, being the majority, or the ones in power (ala Argentina) just TAKE the rest. Anybody who ignores history when it rhymes deserves what it may unleash.

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/15/2010 8:05:25 PM
From: ggersh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116555

"Had the Fed had even hinted at taking away the punch bowl, they would have all been replaced quicker than you can say three-car garage." I agree with story as I lived it also. But the Fed should never had put that punch bowl out in the first place. All the "LIAR and NINJA loans" were never made back when. But until a couple of years ago all you needed to do was walk into any Countrywide office and say I want a loan and they didn't do any "due diligence" on these applicants and gave them away. Of course WS wanted every and any kind of loan to securitize so they also did no "due diligence" So in conclusion, yes the American people are dumb and irresponsible, but so were the lenders and WS. IOW where were the grownups?

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/15/2010 9:06:39 PM
From: studdog	2 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

great post, Conspiracy is always attractive to embrace in crisis, but this assumes great intellect and an acute understanding of human nature shared by a multitude of conspirators. From what I've seen , any conspiracy was a "confederacy of dunces". I don't think they were smart enough to conspire. I think the financial bastards were smart enough and greedy enough to insure their enrichment at the expense of others by rigging the system and corrupting those in power, who in turn were just interested in their own fortunes. The American people aided and abetted the whole thing because it looked like they were getting rich too. Almost all those involved simply confused our unproductive economic growth and climbing debt with Wealth. Very few were as astute as you. The rest were blinded by greed and self interest. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that anything has changed. i think we are going to just keep doing the same old thing and follow the same old paradigm of misdirected growth until the entire world looks like Haiti and the "whole shithouse goes up in flames". Better get your kicks while you can. SD

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/15/2010 9:08:32 PM
From: NOW	2 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

i am not sure what your point is? skeeter has said that the bankers who you call stoopid have an uncanny ability to use their stupidity to make themselves fantastically rich and powerful. You invoke the conspiracy boogeyman to say he has got it all wrong, that really while a few bad apples maybe should be punished, really it is all the fault of the average man for wanting more than he could afford. funny how that works.

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/15/2010 11:32:07 PM
From: Skeeter Bug	3 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

una, if you aren't trolling, please explain why our current money as debt monetary system is effectively a $10s of trillions debt based ponzi scheme. if you can't, which is what i suspect, please watch these videos and educate yourself... youtube.com youtube.com watch each twice if you don't "get it" the first time. if you feel they are in error, please discuss specifics. you won't understand where i'm coming from until you understand the monetary system set up by the bankers is a fundamentally fraudulent one that was mathematically destined to crash over time. >>I worry about the young people you may be influencing with your conspiracy theories. Always ‘the man’ and never the face in the mirror with you guys.<< why do you assume that a system set up by bankers to loot the public of its wealth means that there is no responsibility borne on the part of the public? would you spend more time blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt when walking to a bar or the guy who raped her? i'm attacking a fundamentally fraudulent banking system (money as debt) that robs society and enriches bankers just b/c of who they are, not because of any special work they have done. i'm also for the people taking more responsibility b/c they've helped to bankrupt both you and i, too. but a responsible public will only extend the time required for the monetary ponzi scheme to collapse, it won't prevent it. watch the videos and you should be able to deduce exactly why.

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/16/2010 12:30:35 AM
From: Skeeter Bug	5 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

Una, my apologies on the trolling comment. that wasn't fair. you didn't support your argument, even so, i over reached with that comment. before reading the following three quotes, please understand that each of these men was a victim of an assassination attempt. lincoln and garfield were killed, but both guns shoved in jackson's gut both misfired (whoever wanted him dead wanted redundancy!). 3 for 3. apparently, standing up to bankers is correlated tightly to assassination attempts. what did jefferson mean by this quote given that the people had to play a role in inflation and deflation? why do you suppose he chose to place the blame on private banks that controlled the issue of the state's money? "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." what did abraham lincoln mean when he said... "The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe." what did president garfield mean when he said... "Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is the master of all its legislation and commerce." what did uber banker Mayer Amschel Rothschild mean when he said this... "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." this is nothing new... read some history... "The bank was saved but the money was ruined." William Gouge (1796-1863) btw, next time you group me with someone, please group me with thomas jefferson, abraham lincoln and james garfield next time, alrighty. ;-) you aren't fighting my idea, you are fighting andrew jackson's idea, abraham lincoln's idea, james garfield's idea - and idea that may well have sealed their fate - the monetary system and the issuance of money should serve the public good, not the private interests of private bankers. a nation is not free unless it has control of the money. the united states of america DOES NOT have control of its money. PRIVATE BANKERS DO. how do you like the results? $1.25 million in debt per every household in america based on actual and promised expenditures... and growing about $20k per year. jackson, lincoln and garfield were right. until we admit it and remove those committing "crimes" (lincoln's words), we shall suffer the fate outlined by jackson - "the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." assuming it already isn't too late.

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/16/2010 9:35:34 AM
From: skinowski	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116555

Good remarks, interesting story. Occam's razor would eliminate conspiracy. I also think that it is not an issue of "American stupidity" - it's all merely human nature. When things are good, we get exuberant - and assure an inevitable collapse. Public mood goes up and down... collectively, as a crowd, we are manic depressive. Seven fat years will be followed by seven lean years. It was always was like that (and every time there were theories about what happened, and fall guys to be blamed for it). About Outer Banks... we used to camp there almost every year, since 1980. Now, our kids go there with their friends and families. Still a great place. Last summer my wife and I rented a house on the beach near Hatteras village, and we had a family reunion of sorts. Was great. The beach house, btw, was a big 3 level construction, originally built as a single family home - the curious thing is that... it actually had a real elevator inside, with a shaft and buttons and all. Bubbles can be funny... :)

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/17/2010 2:09:19 AM
From: Skeeter Bug	3 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

una, i expect that you have viewed those videos i posted explaining how our monetary system if a fraudulent ponzi scheme whereby exponential debt has to be added to the system or it will collapse. eventually, exponential debt hits a ceiling where the economy can't support it. hello 2006-2008. here's what it looks like in graph form... market-ticker.denninger.net market-ticker.denninger.net that was quite an effort by the fed and bankers to create an environment )low interest rates, low or no regulation, acceptance of criminal behavior from people taking out loans enabled by the bankers' criminal fraud back end AAA toxic trash fraud) and CONSTANT FED TOUTING of "new economies", "house prices supported by economy" and all the other lies they foisted on the american people. all the while they knew debt had become unhinged form GDP. the FBI reported massive mortgage fraud in something like 2004. a government study of stated income loans showed only 10% told the truth and more than half lied about their income being more than 50% greater than it was per their tax return. the fed knew this. they kept it quiet - its owners were making too much money in their criminal activity. hopefully, you are gaining some clarity about the "big picture" and not assigning so much value to personal feelings. why do you think the banker's association said this and what exactly where they trying to convey? "Capital must protect itself in every possible way, both by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through the process of law, the common people lose their homes, they will become more docile and more easily governed through the strong arm of government applied by a central power of wealth under leading financiers. These truths are well known among our principal men who are now engaged in forming an imperialism to govern the world. By dividing the voter through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting for questions of no importance. It is thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves that which has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished." American's Banker Association, 1924 we need a public central bank that issues money for the good of american, not a small group of bankrupt criminal bankers. i hope we can get you on board once you understand the issues that andrew jackson, abraham lincoln, james garfield and the banker association understand so well. these parasites will eat the host whole unless the host evicts them. we need all the help we can get. this group is so powerful they "run the place" up in congress per a congressman's own statement. "The banks run the place. I will tell you what the problem is — they give three times more money than the next biggest group. It’s huge the amount of money they put into politics.” - Representative Collin C. Peterson (D- Minnesota), NYT “And the banks — hard to believe in a time when we’re facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created — are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place.” -Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), WJJG 1530 AM’s “Mornings with Ray Hanania.” btw, i'll bet you didn't know that it is ILLEGAL to reinstate glass-steagall per WTO law? nor that it is ILLEGAL to break up a bank due to size? guess who "runs the place" in the WTO? even more scary is that the WTO isn't elected by the people. we can't kick out any of the people "running the place." they are looking to run over you when they steal your retirement account by forcing it into treasuries. if you need me to explain how that is outright 100% theft, just ask and i will explain it to you.

To: Unalakleet who wrote (106550)	1/17/2010 2:32:06 AM
From: Skeeter Bug	6 Recommendations Respond to of 116555

and while you are pondering the effect of debt based money on the citizenry, how about pondering why... 1. banks get to legally LIE about their asset base (mark to myth) - and act that should be securities fraud and all participants should be in jail (but it often takes new crime to cover old crime, right?). 2. the fed is the only unaudited institution in the united states? no entity has MORE POWER and no entity has LESS ACCOUNTABILITY than the fed. 3. why does a tax cheat from the fed get the nod for treasury after the banks all failed under his regulatory watch? do that in china and you get executed and your family gets a bill for the bullet. if being a complete regulatory failure wasn't enough, if tax cheating wasn't enough, how about his securities fraud and insider trading crimes? oh, you didn't know about the latter, eh? geithner told goldman - and only goldman - that they government was going to save AIG. he then went on TV and told everyone that AIG was failing. the CDS on AIG exploded higher and goldman sachs sold into the strength KNOWING what nobody else knew - that AIG would be bailed out. is tim geithner good for the american people? is a complete failure at banking regulation good for america? is tax cheating good for the american people? is securities fraud good for american investors? is creating insider trading good for america? you have plenty of information to reach the right conclusions. i hope your emotion to be right doesn't overwhelm you. we need everyone we can get in this battle against the banker oligarchs and plutocrats. "academics" don't lie cheat and steal - CRIMINALS DO. edit - check out this interview with Bill Laggner/ His understanding of the true economy is evidenced by his 134% return in 2008. kingworldnews.com please explain why Bill is wrong and you are right. please be specific.