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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Crossy who wrote (28059)	1/15/2010 11:17:05 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

"his leads me back to the start of my "adventure". I am interested in religious HISTORY to find out the telelologic consequences of cults - what where they used to, how were they useful or detrimental (to the powers of their time) and not so much for their religious content. Also I like to compare how these cults viewed the individual in the context of my own belief." I'm watching a movie so I am not going to respond (at this time) to most of your post. However, the above intrigues me: To what end do you explore these cults?? "Also I like to compare how these cults viewed the individuum in the context of my own belief."" Without having a COMPLETE construct of your "own belief" I could not assist you in that task. But I can certainly help you with religious history and such. I have spent my life studying and I wish to spend my last years hiking and sitting in a canoe and watching birds and cougars and things like that. Some posts I will respond to.

To: Crossy who wrote (28059)	1/15/2010 11:33:04 PM
From: Solon	Respond to of 28931

"so far I couldn't sense atrocities in the New Testament" Is killing pigs over a cliff and (OBVIOUSLY) destroying someones income on his farm when the "DEMONS" could have been killed with antibodies instead of being destroyed by a great fall!! HA! HA! HA!--not an ATROCITY?? Now you are not as "moral" as a God but would you you destroy your neighbors crop if you could spray it?? When "Jesus" got pissed after a long walk and then cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit...was this an atrocity?? The fig tree was out of season. Apparently it was not a Moral Agent. Why would Jesus Curse this tree??!!! If you can show me ONE book of the OLD or NEW testaments that is not filthy, ignorant, absurd, cruel, beastly, irrational, mythic, or inhuman--please feel free to point it out to me...

To: Crossy who wrote (28059)	1/16/2010 7:30:21 PM
From: John McCarthy	Respond to of 28931

Crossy not sure exactly what your after - ADVENTURE wise - but nearest the sun to the 1st religion would be the Mesopotamian Creation Myths .... EXTANT texts goback to 1,800 BC (Akkadian) but they are probably re-writes going back to 2,600 BC. (Sumerian) Mesopotamia is a tricky "CONCEPT" It contais 5 sub-sets - in time order - Ubaid - pre Sumer 1-Sumeria 2-Akkadian 3-Old Babylonia 4/5- The Other Two For purposes here - Mesopotamia = Iraq and Basra, Iraq = beginning of human cities .... i.e. Sumer faculty.gvsu.edu The Hebrews ... don't begin till after 2,200 BC (Abraham (UR=Sumer)) IOW - he popped out after recorded religion (Sumer-3,200 BC) began and 99% knew Mesopotamian religion very well bible-archaeology.info (I am ignoring the Minoans - the peoples in Turkey and Egypt) The HOLE in the Christ logic is HIS association with the Old Testament. i.e. if the Old Testament is rubbish - ditto Christ - and ditto the gospel writers. Finally - although Mesopotamia had REAL WRITING from 3,200 BC forward - it gets obliterated and the Alphabet (via Phonecia) does not appear till 1,000 BC - so there is a dead-period exceptions - en.wikipedia.org This is important with respect to the Old Testament There either was or wasn't an Jewish Oral Tradition between 2,200 BC --> 1,000 BC and then written down thereafter -or- It got "created" after 1,000 BC with folklore thrown in. In any event - its messy Genesis is an example of a "mess". Some jewish scholars argue that Genesis was written by two tribes. And lay out the versions (within the one text) side by side. The thinking is - two tribes had a pissing contest (which means two high priests had a pissing contest) and some EDITOR intervened and merged the two into 1 document. Ambiguities and all. Bottom line - all of it is out of the mouths of men. No God or Gods required. (See Friedman - Who Wrote the Bible?) Some OT proverbs (wisdom writings) are almost direct rip-offs from the much earlier Sumer/Akkadian "myths". i.e. they are not from God to man. With respect to the new testament - who are you reading? Nobody knows. This will save time and might be right. Or wrong. Mark - wrote first Luke and Mathew copied/embellish Mark. John is hanging out by himself. If true - problem - Mark wasn't there. He is writing - second hand. Years after Christ's death - he bumped into Peter and scribbled stuff down what Peter said. Or did he embellish and invent? There may have been other unknown documents lost to history. And who invented Luke and Mathew via Mark? (There are a bazillion texts on this) The backbone of the New Testament is Paul. But Paul didn't hang with Christ when Christ was walking around. Paul came much later. My sense of Paul is - a combo F. Scott Fitzgerald / biopolar - but no cam-corders or CNN to examine. The Old Testament is full of God says kill those and kill them. An infinite number of times. It occurred to me that the Old Testament would be in history's back pages - but Christ screwed up - and made it his goto book. Actually Christ could ONLY goto that book - because that's his story line (David) - and there's the smoking gun. Its a thought .... Although the invention of the Alphabet was a pivotal event - more important were Homer and the greeks. In a nutshell -- Homer launched Greece - and guys like Thales, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Alexander popped out .... then Alexander had one big effect in that taking over the world -- everyone had to play catch-up on 'thought' including the Hebrews - Ironically - -- we call the greek religion mythology -- but Socrates, Plato, Aristotle KNEW that their GODS were THE Gods - i.e. the starters of Western civ have had their gods thrashed .... -- Homer via the Epic - brought religion and everything else (poetry) to the forefront. And Alexander cemented it world-wise. There are 3 periods to Christanity -- Jew only - before Paul -- We take all - Paul -- think like me or I will kill you - 381 AD In closing - I have been trying to find an axiom that says that the Universe cannot exist without life forms. So far - on appearance only - it appears that the universe does not require life forms in order to exist. It also bothers me that if I landed on Mars and found weak little creatures - I wouldn't wanna kill any of them. Ancient Israel - Lester Grabbe - is a good starter book (1997). Its about Archeology - and your forced to pay attention to timelines. regards John McCarthy