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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Paul Smith who wrote (134536)	3/24/2010 10:11:20 AM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542784

The data is easy to find. The northern Republicans were in favor, but they are mostly gone nowadays: By party and region Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states. The original House version: * Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%) * Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%) * Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%) * Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%) The Senate version: * Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor) * Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas) * Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure) * Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure)

To: Paul Smith who wrote (134536)	3/24/2010 10:12:57 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Respond to of 542784

"This is one of those items that is either factually true or not and can be measured by the recorded votes" So why didn't you check? Vote totals Totals are in "Yea-Nay" format: The original House version: 290-130 (69%-31%) Cloture in the Senate: 71-29 (71%-29%) The Senate version: 73-27 (73%-27%) The Senate version, as voted on by the House: 289-126 (70%-30%) [edit] By party The original House version:[9] Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%) Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%) Cloture in the Senate:[10] Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%-34%) Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%) The Senate version:[9] Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%) Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%) The Senate version, voted on by the House:[9] Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%) Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%) [edit] By party and region Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states. The original House version: Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%) Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%) Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%) Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%) The Senate version: Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor) Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas) Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure) Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure) en.wikipedia.org

To: Paul Smith who wrote (134536)	3/24/2010 10:21:53 AM
From: Win Smith	Respond to of 542784

There's a straw man argument buried in there somewhere, and if I felt like punishing myself I'd go track down the sources, but you didn't link anything. Before Johnson pushed through the civil rights act, it was known as "the Solid South". See en.wikipedia.org for a concise overview. The Republican party of today may be a little more correlated to the Republican party of 1964 than it is to the Republican party of Lincoln, but that's not saying a lot. Krugman's reading of Gingrich's quote seems perfectly arguable. If Gingrich wants to deny that reading of his quote , that's his privilege, but there is a lot of evidence that civil rights did, indeed, shatter the Democratic party, at least in "Solid South" context. If every sentence in every op-ed / blogospheric screed that gets posted on LindyBill's thread had to pass the level of scrutiny that Krugman gets, well, it'd be entertaining.

To: Paul Smith who wrote (134536)	3/24/2010 10:51:15 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542784

Dale's point is a bit different. He seems to be saying that the southern democrats became southern republicans after the vote. Dale's point is that this didn't happen immediately. But you can track the history back to that vote and its consequences. As a result, the Reps became much more conservative and began to run on not so subtle racist hints in the South. It is, of course, well known that LBJ anticipated it.

To: Paul Smith who wrote (134536)	3/24/2010 11:27:09 AM
From: Katelew	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542784

Dale's point is correct and the way things should be viewed. As an Arkansas, I lived through the whole thing. The South was solidly and reliably Democratic before the Civil Rights legislation. It had been in a tizzy for years starting in 1957 because of forced integration of the schools.....begun under a Republican, Eisenhower. LBJ was considered a turncoat and the final straw in terms of the anger many Southern voters had at the time. The Republican Party capitalized on this, it now had a toehold in the South. Over time, the party pulled the so-called "Dixiecrats" into their fold, then Christian Conservatives, and so on.