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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/8/2010 11:01:17 PM
From: Oeconomicus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

I agree. Liberals think they are open-minded and giving, and they think that conservatives are closed-minded and selfish.

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/9/2010 8:37:32 AM
From: jlallen	3 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

Typical shallow and stereotypical thinking from the left.

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/9/2010 11:00:22 AM
From: FJB	2 Recommendations Respond to of 90947

If it were up to George Bernard Shaw, the author of that post would not be allowed to procreate due to their inferior intellect.

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/9/2010 11:44:03 AM
From: Bill	9 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

There are other, more credible, theories as to why conservative talk radio is successful while liberal talk radio fails. My personal favorite is that liberal ideas generally cannot withstand three hours a day of real scrutiny. Liberal ideas pass muster among the sound-bite set, like network newscasters, but fail when put under a microscope.

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/9/2010 12:55:59 PM
From: Brumar89	7 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

But since a majority of American voters elected a Democrat for President and gave Congress a Democrat majority, why aren't the majority of talk radio programs liberal? Many of the voters in 06 and 08 weren't voting for liberalism. Obama was sold to moderates as a non-idealogical open-minded pragmatist. The Democrats got Congress because they followed a policy of running "blue dogs" ie moderates that could sound kinda conservative in a lot of places a liberal wouldn't have a chance. Thats why despite a massive Democratic majority in Congress they had such a problem getting health care passed. -------------------- They find talk radio -- with all the stupid people calling in -- is just not their cup of tea. I listened to Air America daily for awhile on a trip once and was struck by the mindless stupidity of the callers ALL of whom were liberal. I listen to Bennett, Medved, Hewitt, Prager some and while they all take callers their programs aren't really caller driven. You'll also hear guests being interviewed, sometimes authors being interviewed, political figures being interviewed, and a lot of commentary on current events from the host and the guests. Also regarding the openness to new ideas thing .... you'll hear liberals calling in from time to time on conservative talk radio - Medved sets a day aside a week for people who disagree with him. My experience with Air America was there was NOTHING but liberal opinion expressed. Furthermore the commentary you hear from conservative talk shows hosts and their guests contains a LOT of discussion of liberal ideas and discussion of whats wrong with them. So its pretty clear your ideas of conservative talk radio probably aren't very realistic. ------------------------ I see conservatives as caring more about themselves than they do about thier fellow human beings. I see liberals as wanting to help their fellow man (and woman) -- especially the oppressed and downtrodden. We all know thats the liberal image of themselves and of others. It boils down to 'we're compassionate and not selfish and heartless like you guys are'. Funny, that social scientists have found conservatives, especially religious ones, are more generous than liberals. That liberal compassion doesn't apply to the unborn. That liberal programs often (I should say almost all the time) hurt the poor - cash for clunkers, environmental and land use restrictions are examples but there are many more (preventing school voucher programs hurts the poor who can't afford private schools, allowing massive illegal immigration from third world countries hurts the labor markets for the poor and poorly educated).

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/9/2010 3:30:54 PM
From: mph	8 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 90947

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make -- and this is my conjecture only -- is that conservative minded people enjoy listening to people reinforcing their ideas on a daily basis, whereas liberal thinking people like to explore more and look for new ideas and concepts, including art and other media. They find talk radio -- with all the stupid people calling in -- is just not their cup of tea. I'm not saying everyone who participates in talk radio is stupid, just that there really are a lot of lot of stupid comments made. I always end up thinking, "That's 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back" when I try and listen. Think about it. Rush Limbaugh's program is the most listened to radio program ever. People actually listen to him for three hours every day. I coudln't listen to anyone for three hours every day, especially if they're saying the same thing day after day, week after week, month after month. But conservatives do. I personally like Jon Stewart but I watch him at them most twice a month. I catch a few short funny things on theInternet in between but I'm not glued to his show every evening. I can't even remember the last one I watched of his. This author: --doesn't realize the level to which he has been indoctrinated by the left/liberal media; --doesn't see the irony in his bland acceptance of stereotypes fostered by the left; and --thinks he is thinking deep thoughts whereas he is just regurgitating old saws.

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/9/2010 7:27:17 PM
From: Joe Btfsplk	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

Robert, your friend is caught up in delusions of knowledge and is typical of a lot of otherwise intelligent people. These are smug rubes and bumpkins who have had no exposure to decent analysis of historical experience. Thomas Sowell addressed this in two of his easiest reads: A CONFLICT OF VISIONS and VISION OF THE ANOINTED. Reading either or both might shed light.

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/9/2010 9:11:37 PM
From: silvertoad	8 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

"...I see conservatives as caring more about themselves than they do about thier fellow human beings." -then u r mistaken -- A common perception is that liberals and Democrats are more “socially concerned” than conservative Republicans, and one might make the natural leap that because of this, they are more likely to be charitable. According to the research that Arthur Brooks conduced though, it’s exactly the opposite. How could that be? That’s impossible! Brooks himself thought there might be an error in the numbers so he rechecked them. There was no denying the facts. Conservative Republicans, (who some argue would fire their grandmother to improve profitability) are statistically more charitable (more than 30% more charitable) compared to their “socially concerned” liberal democratic friends. Don’t shoot the messenger if you don’t like this, read the book and see the statistics for yourself. Just the facts here… richiericher.wordpress.com

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/10/2010 3:21:48 AM
From: Sully-	4 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

Hello robert, I've read the 8 previous replies to your post before I responded. I wanted to see what the regulars here had said to dispel the myths you seem to believe are truths. They are as follows; #1 - "I'm know I'm going to get ripped a new one by the hard-core conservatives on here.. " It didn't happen. The worst you got was to have one person regurgitate the rantings of a left wing elitist, George Bernard Shaw [who won a Nobel Prize, an Oscar & was an ardent socialist]. And he was an ardent eugenicist and forced birth control advocate. If that is ripping you a new one, consider the source. Shaw wasn't alone. In fact Obama has a few top advisors who think similarly. #2 - "many right-leaning students who are more geared toward the here and now and what they can get to expand their wealth" There may be some truth to that among conservatives just as it's true among far left wing liberals like George Soros, Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, Oprah Winfrey, George Clooney, Michael Moore, Charles Rangel, Alec Baldwin, John Kerry, Sean Penn, John Edwards, Susan Sarandon, Jeremiah Wright, Janeane Garofalo, Alan Grayson, Roman Polanksi, Martin Sheen, Charlie Sheen, Ted Kennedy, Barack & Michelle Obama, Mike Farrell, Frank Lautenberg, Jesse Jackson, Bill & Hillary Clinton, Jon Corzine, Jay Rockefeller, Sharon Stone, Jane Harman, Mark Warner, Tom Harkin.... Just to name some of the easy ones. Oh, also see the answer to #5 below too. #3 - "conservative minded people enjoy listening to people reinforcing their ideas on a daily basis, whereas liberal thinking people like to explore more and look for new ideas and concepts" You claim to have this thread bookmarked yet you speculate the above. If you had read this thread with any regularity you'd have been exposed to a plethora of credible evidence to the contrary. Here's one thing this thread has proven over & over; Look around SI at liberal threads & conservative threads. Specifically look at the bookmark to ban ratios. Conservative threads have vastly higher bookmark to ban ratios. That alone should tell you libs love to have their left wing views reinforced on a daily basis by banning any people with opposing views & conservatives are more open to other ideas & concepts. If that's not enough for you, read some of these threads & you'll quickly see who wants to have their their ideas reinforced on a daily basis [libs] & who explores more and look for new ideas and concepts [conservatives]. This is an undeniable fact that is well documented all over the internet message boards. #4 - [Liberals]"find talk radio -- with all the stupid people calling in -- is just not their cup of tea." Your point being that conservatives dominate talk radio, "with all the stupid people calling in". You also noted that liberals dominate the MSM which is quite true. Did it ever occur to you that conservative talk radio is so popular because conservatives & independents are sick of left wing bias so prevalent in the MSM? Again if you have read this thread we've proven beyond a shadow of any doubt that there is widespread left wing bias in the MSM. Even Fox News is widely popular among conservatives, independents & even many liberals because they do not slant their news. Even their opinion shows have more balance than the NYT. Perhaps you are more comfortable with the MSM because you find it reinforces your ideas on a daily basis. #5 - "I see conservatives as caring more about themselves than they do about thier fellow human beings. I see liberals as wanting to help their fellow man (and woman) -- especially the oppressed and downtrodden." If you read the responses to your post you already know that your belief runs contrary to real facts. If you read this thread you'd have seen the links to study after study proving your opinion dead wrong. Every time conservatives are shown to be more charitable by a wide margin. That alone should tell you how people feel about their fellow man. You see, liberals in general claim they "feel" strongly about those things, but they don't actually do much about it on their own. Conservatives do. Now those replies & studies are about charitable giving of their time & $$$. What about asking the gov't to risk blood & treasure to help the "oppressed & downtrodden"? Libs tend to now oppose all military interventions regardless of the circumstances. They do want to have the gov't to "spread the wealth" with programs like welfare, health care, social security, medicare & all manner of entitlement programs. And when these programs don't work liberals want the gov't to throw more money at the same programs. Meanwhile conservatives want to see the US do more to free the "oppressed & downtrodden". They want to put an end to brutal, genocidal dictators & repressive regimes because all people deserve the opportunity to live free & have the opportunities to have the liberties we enjoy here. And conservatives know gov't that "spread the wealth" programs like welfare, health care, social security, medicare & all manner of entitlement programs are vast boondoggles that have failed every time they have been tried throughout history. We see them as a waste of limited resources that could be better put to use elsewhere. All these programs are doing is driving this country to bankruptcy even though they have never solved the problems they were created to fix. In fact most entitlement programs utterly fail the "oppressed & downtrodden", keeping them poor & permanently dependent on gov't handouts. We want to see the problems solved by by not repeating the same failed strategies over & over expecting different results. I hope this helps you see where we are coming from. Regards, Tim

To: robert a belfer who wrote (78938)	4/16/2010 3:35:36 PM
From: TimF	2 Recommendations Respond to of 90947

But since a majority of American voters elected a Democrat for President and gave Congress a Democrat majority, why aren't the majority of talk radio programs liberal? Because the liberals get their message out in other ways. The "mainstream media" leans liberal. Its not as liberal in most cases as a typical explicitly conservative talk radio show, but the liberal lean or (since liberal traditionally meant supporting more personal freedom) the lean to the left of the MSM is balanced out by talk radio. Liberals have less need for talk radio. Also there is a certain path dependence. The first successful major political talk radio shows where conservative, so conservatives see the area as more hospitable to them, and are more likely to give it a try, why liberals are more likely to put the medium down rather than participate, and if they do want their own show they will have more skepticism about it and find it harder to succeed. is that conservative minded people enjoy listening to people reinforcing their ideas on a daily basis, No more so than liberals, or any of various other political persuasions. People all around generally like to have their ideas supported more than they like to have them attacked or ignored. just that there really are a lot of lot of stupid comments made Such audience participation does open the door up to people who never would have had a even a moment of major media access otherwise. Sometimes that can be good, you get different perspectives and useful discussions, but of course you get a lot of inanity to, whatever the political persuasion of the person spouting the inanity. but I do think conservatives (let's do it the way we've always done it) and liberals (this isn't good enough. let's try something new) have a very different mindset that transcends politics Both groups are large, and the boundaries somewhat poorly defined. There overlap between the groups on non-political issues is large. To the extent you have coherent groups of someone distinct people when looking at conservatives and liberals (and most attempts at classifying overstate this extent) you have a bunch of subgroups of each, rather than a single conservative or liberal mindset. I see conservatives as caring more about themselves than they do about thier fellow human beings. I see liberals as wanting to help their fellow man (and woman) -- especially the oppressed and downtrodden. Statistically conservatives give more to charity than liberals. Which doesn't mean I'm saying they are more concerned about the poor or otherwise disadvantaged, but rather that they express their concern in a different way (not night and day difference, again there is a lot of overlap). Conservatives are more likely to see welfare programs as being harmful to many poor people, and the high taxes to support them as being both practically harmful and unjust. Liberals are more likely to see government programs are good solutions or even the only solution; don't support more government involvement in health care, well than obviously you don't care about health care or the uninsured..., that's not true, even unreasonable, but that's the thought). I look at the social programs that you see as a sign of caring and some quotes from Frederic Bastiat come to mind. "The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else." "Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone." "If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." "The delusion of the day is to enrich all classes at the expense of each other; it is to generalize plunder under pretense of organizing it. Now, legal plunder may be exercised in an infinite multitude of ways. Hence come an infinite multitude of plans for organization; tariffs, protection, perquisites, gratuities, encouragements, progressive taxation, free public education, right to work, right to profit, right to wages, right to assistance, right to instruments of labor, gratuity of credit, etc., etc. And it is all these plans, taken as a whole, with what they have in common, legal plunder, that takes the name of socialism." And this one which addresses your idea of not supporting some government program as indicating that you don't care about the issue the program is trying to address. "Socialism, like the old policy from which it emanates, confounds Government and society. And so, every time we object to a thing being done by Government, it concludes that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of education by the State - then we are against education altogether. We object to a State religion - then we would have no religion at all. We object to an equality which is brought about by the State then we are against equality, etc., etc. They might as well accuse us of wishing men not to eat, because we object to the cultivation of corn by the State." Also this from Margaret Thatcher - "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."