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Strategies & Market Trends : The Residential Real Estate Crash Index -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (251713)	6/4/2010 12:39:13 AM
From: neolib	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

it isn't "money" in the sense that it doesn't need to be accepted by anyone else. try to pay your credit union mortgage with it - you'll lose your home You are painful! How many times have I pointed out that IOUs are very different from state currency because they depend on the individual who issues them, rather than the collective economy of the state. How many times must I repeat this for it to sink in? Let me give you some actual numbers. In my life, I've issued private IOUs for real estate totaling $130K. No banks involved. Take cir 130 million working tax payers x $130K = $16.9T. Thats how much private money based on debt would exist in the USA if every effective working taxpayer had issued as much private IOU money as I have. Now I'm pretty sure I'm far out on the distribution tail, because most people use banks for buying real estate. But still, I'm interested in knowing the actual magnitude, because the government of the USA has no control over this aspect of the money supply. at the end of the day, though, the only debt instrument that MUST be accepted for all debts, public and private, is money. Again, I have never claimed that IOU money is equivalent to national currency for freaking obvious reasons. All I've been trying to get you to understand is that it is "money". You are hung up on the fact that national currency has special legal status as well. I've never said it does not. How do I get you to stop yapping about it? The rest of your comments continue in the same fashion. Since IOUs are not identical to national currency money, you continue to claim no money is created from IOU debt but money is created from bank currency debt. The point remains they are both money, but not identical money. I never have tried to claim they are identical money. Money is ANYTHING of value which circulates in the economy and is used for payment in trade. Private IOU's, national currency, gold, etc, all meet that definition. Nobody is claiming they are identical. Very simple concepts. Thats why I gave you the example of A & B swapping equal value IOUs. You responded with the nonsense that since the IOUs were of equal value they canceled out and no money was created. I don't bother to respond because all I could do was ROTFLMAO! The two IOU's can't possibly "cancel" out, unless A & B agree to tear them up. Instead A & B can both use the others IOU for trade with C & D who have no freaking clue, nor do they freaking care, that the IOUs popped into existence the way they did. It is 100% irrelevant to them! Their only concern is whether A's IOU and B's IOU are worth anything. For a thought experiment, just wrap your mind around these simple requirements: 1) A & B are both productive individuals 2) They are both honest. 3) C & D know 1 & 2 are correct. Ergo, A's IOU and B's IOU are worth face value, and C & D gladly take them. Therefore the IOUs have entered circulation as "money". They will only leave circulation when redeemed by A & B respectively, for whatever there value stated (10 fish, 10 boards, or even some other form of money, say a national currency). It should be clear to you that the method used by A & B to finally redeem their notes and thus cancel the IOU money out of existence is again freaking irrelevant to the utility of the IOU's as money while they circulate. For some unknowable reason, you will claim that if the IOUs are canceled out with something you are willing to call "money" (like a national currency) that means the IOUs were not money while they circulated. Unbelievable! Now tell me once again that no money was created by A & B giving each other equal valued IOU's. I said money, not national currency. Why I'm repeating that caveat Lord only knows! I need another good laugh.

To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (251713)	6/4/2010 9:20:11 AM
From: RetiredNow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

Hi all, that was one hell of a disappointing jobs number: 437K new jobs, 411K of which were the hiring of census workers! The only description for that is a stinking pile of shit of a jobs number. Down goes the markets today. It may erase all the gains from earlier in the week. finance.yahoo.com A wave of census hiring lifted payrolls by 431,000 in May, but job creation by private companies grew at the slowest pace since the start of the year. The unemployment rate dipped to 9.7 percent as people gave up searching for work... Virtually all the job creation in May came from the hiring of 411,000 census workers. Such hiring peaked in May and will begin tailing off in June.