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To: Alan Coccio who wrote (1813)	11/8/1997 5:10:00 PM
From: Ga Bard	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 8835

Alan, I know from conference calls and making orders proving to no one but myself that what I am saying is true. Buying is treated as a sell at the midpoint. Again I do not have level three but I soon will have. Example: I place buy limits just above the bid and the bid moves up. I place a limit order at the midpoint and no other trade and after a few of them the price goes down. If they fill between at the nidpoint the bid moves up. Check the MIDLW last trade was a .14 .. it was a sell and the bid was .09 and .15 at the time. The bid instantly raised. I have posted on 8 or more stocks, and some I do not own the trading log. It clearly shows what I am saying plus the level three does also. MMs see each limit order and they can pick and chose as they want. Now with that said, lets say you are a MM would you buy stocks from a shareholder or would you sell short a shareholder wanting to buy at the midpoint. I would sell short sell personally then drop the ask and maybe even the bid. When the limit order falls chasing the bid I can cover and make a bundle. Why buy stock higher than the bid when you can short sell lower than the ask and then after you have short sold enough drop the price? Dropping the price the ones selling will chase it down. Sense you are an MM you know exactly what the limit orders are and can use that to your advantage. This makes perfect common sense to me. Greed is the MMs money machine. On the big market where the trading is not a bid and ask other traders decide whether to sell to you or not. On the OTC:BB MMs know exactly what to do. Do not underestimate a MM at their own game. ALso if you notice this has really just started happening since the new law and the fall of the market. How better to recover the loss on the big market than to make it back very quickly on the OTC market. If you wish to buy between the bid and ask that is up to each individual. However I think I have proven that it only helps the MM short the price down. Also since the new ruling wider bids and asks have suddenly sprouted up on nearly all stocks. Oh well this is just my opinion and people should do what is right for them. GaBard

To: Alan Coccio who wrote (1813)	11/8/1997 10:58:00 PM
From: Big Bucks	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 8835

Alan, If your observations are correct, why not place 2 trades simultaneously, one on the short side and one on the buy side. Seems like this would "cover your bets", it would beat the MM (market manipulator) at his own game. If the stock goes down take the profit from the "short" and buy back at the low, this would dollar cost average at a midpoint price between the low and the "buy" and you would be buying 1/2 at the low point, thus gaining more from both buys if the stock exceeds your origional "buy" position. What is your opinion, make sense?? BB

To: Alan Coccio who wrote (1813)	11/8/1997 11:38:00 PM
From: Esteban	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 8835

Al, Muchas Gracias for the PC Quote tip! I can't wait to use this technique next week. Regarding your thoughts on sell orders between the spread causing downticks, aren't you observing the new display rules in action. If you place a limit order to sell between the spread and the MM's don't fill you, the inside spread will change to represent your new lower ask. Or am I misinterpreting the scenario? As for interpreting what might happen as a result of fills between the spread where the new display rules apply, here's a few thoughts. Buy orders whether between the spread or not indicate demand for the stock, but the fact that an MM doesn't want to publish the fact he is selling and at the same time is willing to sell for less than the ask price could mean he has a lot of stock to sell and is anxious to sell it before the price drops as a result of his orders. Watching the movements of the MM on level II may give a clue as to when this is the case. If a prominent seller of the stock pulls his ask but the buy orders are suddenly filled between the spread, I would be suspicious. I'm sure there are lots of other interpretations of the significance of between spread fills. I'd like to hear yours or others musings. Now that I know how to monitor these trades as buy or sell, I'm looking forward to learning their significance. BTW, how has your S&P Quote feed been handling the volume of recent weeks? I've found that PC Quote works well most of the time, but when the volume surges, the quotes can lag by as much as a minute or two. Thanks again, Esteban