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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (585706)	9/15/2010 5:37:21 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1576113

I'm going to skip over some stuff for now which is just getting to be quibbles between us and these things are getting too long for SI posts/responses. IMO Maybe I can reply with more than one response given time. I picked up one primary event to respond to originally. And it seems you are complaining that I haven't provided argument for some of the others. Which is fine, maybe I can later. For now, this has been the heart of the issue I have been addressing: >>>>However, I provided the facts of the case which you insisted on misrepresenting, or leaving out all together. It was far from an unprovoked liesure activity as you represented it. A pagan tribe who attacked Zayd and his companions, killing the companions and leaving Zayd wounded provoked the following attack by Zayd. The woman was their chief, which was not unusual, as many pagan tribes worshipped Goddesses and were under the direction the oldest woman Chief of the tribe for their every move. Zayd held her responsible for the ambush that killed his companions. "Okay, I've got that one. She was a tribal chief and Zayd had been wounded in a previous battle and Mohammed wasn't there, so there, no problem. " It seems we can at least close one door on this. "I still don't understand what modern Muslims looking to the sira for guidance on how to act in the modern world are to take from this story." You know I don't speak for Muslims but my view of it is this: The Quran/Hadith is supposed to be a guide until the end of time. That doesn't mean, however, that a particular surah for the Quran applies to circumstances in this particular time. Not every Surah or Hadith has a practical application in current circumstance. I don't think we have a comparable circumstance in modern times. I suppose you could reach for a lesson and say that if their is a combative enemy, who is killing your brethren and there is no protection available, and you have no effective means of restricting their killing behavior, eliminating that threat completely will resolve the problem for you. But that is not our situation. We have prison for serial killers, we have police, we have military and we are not so threatened by people killing our brethren. We have a policy to kill terrorists or simarly out of control heinous criminals where ever we find them rather than suffer them to do their thing. Which might be considered similar but I don't really think it is. The danger, as we've already agreed, is that Radical Muslims will take this example or something like it as a justification for slaughtering innocent people. ---------- It seems like you are back peddling on some of the things you already said or have done to demonstrate your religious motivation, and I'd prefer to drop that under the circumstances. So I'll move on to my next response. "And what in the world do you think I'm rationalizing about my religion?"* Your statement to that effect. "I don't think talking about Mohammed's history says anything about Christianity. " It does not unless someone puts it in that context, which you have done. I'm willing to over look that now so we can move on.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (585706)	9/15/2010 5:46:49 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1576113

"That's easy. I would not have an old woman torn in two under any circumstances, no matter how evil she was, no matter if I'd been wounded. Me either as I've already stated. But your easy answer did not address my question. I didn't ask what you would not do. So I'll try again. What would you do after your friends were ambushed and killed beside you and you were left wounded, knowing the killers were still out there, no law and no one but you could make the decision about what to do?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (585706)	9/15/2010 5:55:46 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1576113

"Thing is the facts you claim I left out ..... are they in the text of the siras?" Not in the text you presented and probably not on the site you drew those texts from. But the ambush on Zayd, in which his companions were killed, the information about the old woman being the chief of that pagan tribe, and Zayd's promise to avenge that deed were what I found in a more complete text, which I think I posted. Information about customs of the region, tribal violence, captives, and culture is available from any historic records about the period so I consider those comments to be established facts.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (585706)	9/15/2010 6:09:56 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1576113

"Those radical sheiks and their followers .... I'm pretty sure they see the siras exactly as I do. They just embrace the material instead of being repelled by it." I agree and I have been trying to get your attention on this, I still doubt that I have it. Those radical sheiks at least are known to be corrupted human beings. You and I don't disagree on that. If Islam wasn't available they would be using whatever doctrine is available to justify their heinous intentions. The followers are another story. It's possible some of the followers start out reacting to that kind of leadership thinking they are doing a righteous thing to save their loved ones from the evil snake in the west. The evil must be smashed, there is no compromise with the devils from the west and any doubt about that is from Satan, so remove all doubt and don't question what your leader has given you. But blood never sleeps and the reality of brutality gives no one rest, so if their conscience does not at some point rise to the occasion, we must hold them accountable once they are active. The part you are missing is that you have been delivered the same provocation in the same manner that the corrupt Sheiks deliver it to their followers and you have reacted similarly with the same self righteous fear and loathing. Time to do some soul searching pal. gotta go, back later maybe