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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (9110)	9/22/2010 6:45:35 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 69300

<less than convinced by Goswami's arguments.> I'm just saying that general "idea" is in agreement with mine... I don't know the particulars about his assertions. <Some folk talk about "Mother Nature" without any reliance on the complex intellectual machinations of the scholastic and erudite. And I confess I would rather hear some down to earth person giving thanks to "Mother Nature" > Agreed. IMHO all the silly "dissing" and labeling for the purpose of making ideas like the above go away (Pantheism?) was simply a power play by the Catholic Church. < So the first question that comes to my mind when someone suggests that ALL is consciousness, is simply this: Doesn't consciousness require a thinker?? > Other than thinking being different from conciousness... ie. one can sit "thoughtless"... the supposed goal of some versions of "enlightenment"... maybe that's God. Some ramblings: IN a holographic example there are layers and layers of "thinkers", each of your cells has a concious intelligence, as does your organs as does your organ systems, as do you... as does the next layer... unified field? God? Whatever. Maybe THAT god has a god... who knows... who cares really. All this is concordant with Eastern ramblings on the topic as well as Christian mystics. Even Jesus teachings include holographic examples. <And the second question is: Does MY consciousness require more than one thinker (other than myself, that is) (which is to say, does it require a "god" to think along)?> First of all, I"m just rambling about my ideas... but I'll answer with that caveat. :)) 1.) In the view of Oriental medicine each cell has it's own mind and yet are part of yours. Meditators can (could) connect with their inner world, and in fact that is supposedly how they discovered acupuncture channels and points. Emotional state is linked to organ systems and imbalances/balances. The mind is all important and imbalances lead to physical disease states. So YOUR mind (conciousness) is intertwined, arises from, connected to the mind of all your cells/organs/systems... the idea of God simply also connects it to a conciousness going the other way... ie. YOU become part of a greater whole like your cells are part of you. There are many "religious" teachings along this line. 2.) All through history has been the idea of "life force" that all beings have.. which purportedly "arise" out of "one" greater whole... or some such thing. Who knows. <Isn't thinking doing something? Which is to say: Are dead people and inanimate things just as thoughtful as living humans or are they UNconscious??> I have not thought much about afterlife and all other than the above. I will say that "thinking" is something to be transcended in Eastern traditions today ( in past mystical Christians as well, see long history of meditative practices)... so I would presume our idea of "thinking" is not what is going on in the "other life". Some of the physicists think "thinking" is an attempt to "collapse a wave function" and create a reality. So unproductive day dreaming, worry, and thinking would be a big waste of energy whereas planning towards a certain future would be a nobel goal. This makes sense in light of all religions I know, although of course the above "unproductive" parts turn into sin and guilt, sack cloth and ashes!! LOL <You probably know that there is nothing new or novel about Goswami's speculations. George Berkeley expressed the idea that all existence was ideas (mind) 300 years ago. And he was soundly "refuted" by Johnson kicking a rock outside the church. Still, it is not an idea we can entirely and truly refute, so it remains of interest...> Yes, and agreed... interesting. There is a verse in the tao te ching something about manifestation of "things" means they lose their "original quality". The verse speaks about busy people wasting bandwidth. :)) Welcome back BTW... have you noticed the "white noise" level here is down substantially. I'm sure he'll be back, so let's enjoy it while we can. :)) DAK