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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LLCF who wrote (9117)	9/25/2010 10:44:56 AM
From: Solon	1 Recommendation Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 69300

I guess we could talk about “intelligence” till the cows come home. But I don’t know what you truly mean by it. I don’t know what I truly mean by it. And nobody on earth knows what they truly mean by it. As soon as we try to define it we must define other terms nested in the definition and this leads to more questions . And each “answer” we discover is simply a box of new questions. But it is a worthy topic, so let us try to make observations and struggle along… The first thing that comes to mind is that everything that exists (at least, as matter) is in motion (unless it reduces to Absolute Zero), Therefore, we can note a “behavior”--whether we call it a reflex or a response. It would seem interesting to ask whether that behavior was programmed by Nature (a result of natural law such as gravity, refraction, molecular response to heat, etc.)--in other words whether it is necessary…or whether it is independent and individual. Immediately we see a problem: We have not yet determined whether outcomes are determined with regard to homo sapiens or if free will prevails with us; how then can we remark on whether or not other living entities (down to and beyond cells) can modify outcomes?? This is further complicated by the discussion of “universal” intelligence. What does this mean? Is everything that has motion (which is all matter that has time and space) to be termed intelligent by default? If there is one cell in the universe that is not intelligent (or one atom or one quark)--does this put the kibosh on “universal" intelligence?? What do we want intelligence to mean? Between one state of the universe and another state of the universe can a human being intervene? What about all other matter? It appears that some life learns on an individual level (a baby duck learning from the mother how to find food) . And some individuals “learn” from a random mutation. Then again, some life “learns” only through offspring. Mating involves the random admixing of variables to produce both more adaptable and less adaptable offspring. In advance, one cannot know what value to place on what outcome because the environment is in flux and exists in the future. However, in the short term life seems to evolve in a “better” way. Hawks with good eyesight survive to mate with hawks of good eyesight and some of the offspring have even better eyesight. But some do not. Personally, I don’t refer to this as “intelligence” because when we continue to broaden terms we are simply undefining them at some point. However, when an individual (person, duck, or bacteria) learns and improves on individual survival in a contained lifetime, then one feels compelled to call that intelligence. But then other questions occur. If intelligence relates to the ability to change outcomes (from necessary to desired, or beneficial) then why have almost 100% of all species gone extinct?? If intelligence is the guiding force of growth (above and parental to the laws of evolution) then why haven’t all (or most) species continued to advance and learn and create more and more beneficial outcomes?? The quick answer, of course, is that most of life is antagonistic to the rest of life and must destroy it in order to get energy (which is why we ought to be wary of aliens). For instance, you would call cows intelligent. I have seen cows create a weakness in a fence and then continue to exploit it) but what is intelligent about spending centuries making oneself desirable for slaughter?? Would you consider one of your bacterial cells or DNA genes more “intelligent” than a cow? Because if “intelligence is to mean anything to us we need to give it a direction and a value, don’t we?? So what does intelligence mean in terms of the world religions? On the one hand, the origin of religions is too obvious to ignore and on the other hand the new physics allows people to imagine concepts such as universal intelligence or oneness or atman or Brahma in new terms. But in practical terms what do YOU mean by universal intelligence? What influence does any one bacteria or cell or human being have in any possible direction or outcome in the universe? What is a good outcome or a bad outcome from a point of view outside of yourself or any other individual? If you cannot offer me a value outside of the individual, then I do not apprehend the value in attaching the adjective "universal"? It seems to me that "intelligence" divorced from either outcome or purpose (or especially, both) is simply a word to describe wind blowing through wind. So again it comes back to: what is intelligence? Or what do we want it to be in order that it be meaningful in argument or in learning? Well, this is just a bit of free association. It is a difficult topic to discuss when we don’t even know if free will exists! And most people when they reference “universal intelligence” seem to have in mind the conscious or unconscious idea that there is a PLAN involved. And even if we believed that some or all living (or non-living) creatures can influence outcomes in a direction or in a known value (because it seems to me that behavior without a consistent direction and a definable interest cannot intelligently be defined as intelligence)…it still does not suggest that everything is part of a “swarm intelligence” with a plan for honey… We look at the stars and wonder: If intelligence is so "universal"...why is the universe so empty and dead? We (homo sapiens) strut on one grain of sand and boast of the wonders we have seen...