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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (9420)	11/3/2010 5:34:02 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

You are now addressing a common tripping point. So here are a few clues which we can account for. * Things that begin must have a beginning and be caused to begin. * Things that begin seem to have a beginning a middle and an end. * Things that are observable have limitations which qualify them as things. * The concepts of eternity and infinity are rational which opens the door for consideration of unlimited being. * And of course as you already provided the example of a circle, we have something that is both observable and without beginning or end, only measurable by using the magic of PI. * Experience may be based on logic but it is also filled with paradox, irony, chaos, ideas which are richly multifacited and phenomenalogical. * Can two opposing ideas both be true ... of course they can. Limited being and unlimited being are opposing ideas which are equally valid. We can experience a limited life time and an eternity. We can live a life time, consider history, and wonder about the future all without ever leaving the present moment. * Dr Zorba was cool. youtube.com "If you are smart enough to admit that you don’t have a clue whether or not everything begins--or what that even means--or whether space, time, and matter (any or all) is endless like the circle or the pentagram--or begins and ends some nowhere and nowhen and no place…like an (ending) line--then you would also be smart enough to understand that nothing in your uncertainty or ignorance calls for anything in your imagination or the imagination of billions of other people to have demonstrable truth value. So what do you believe? I can start with whatever premise you like because what you contend is quite null and vacuous. Does everything that begins have a beginning as you so wisely wonder? Or shall we each invent an imaginary something that does not have a beginning or a cause? And we can then give that something our favorite eye colors and a wonderful Photoshop nose with hair that never needs cutting and never ever even got started growin--lordy be! LOL!!"

To: Solon who wrote (9420)	11/3/2010 5:49:06 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

<<<"everything that has a beginning, MUST have a CAUSE. Do you deny that or are you just blowing smoke?">>> "You’ve entirely skirted the opportunity to discuss ID and have fallen head first into the silly old prime mover argument." I have skirted nothing. I'm simply establishing a basis for discussion. Should we assume your non answer to be a denial that "everything that has a beginning, MUST have a CAUSE."? Your arguments so far (if they could be called that) have have failed to rise above the level of name calling. Cause and effect underlies and makes scientific inquiry possible. Doing away with it simply because you don't like to ponder the implications of the Universe that had a scientifically demonstrative beginning, is simply dishonest. Your scientifically unfounded wish/belief that the universe is eternal is where the real superstition lies. Have you had any more Tarot card readings from your fortune teller lately?

To: Solon who wrote (9420)	11/3/2010 6:18:46 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

He's so silly... it's chicken and egg... as if HE KNOWS the answer!!! LOL <Of course everything that has a beginning, MUST have a CAUSE.> Ummm, the big bang? LOL... or the one before that, or before that? What a fool DAK

To: Solon who wrote (9420)	11/4/2010 7:37:43 PM
From: LLCF	Respond to of 69300

Interesting that PopeGreg is blubbering about "beginnings", and thinks he can add something that philosophers havent thought about before... His ideas on "causation" certainly show he knows nothing of ideas related to quantum mechanics, etc. Anyway, THAT's nothing new... that kook loves to post stuff he can't discuss... here's something from Hawking related to <“Of course everything that has a beginning, MUST have a CAUSE.“> FWIW: <<Our modern understanding of time suggests that it is just another dimension, like space. Thus it doesn't have a beginning.>>- Steven Hawking DAK