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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jacques Chitte who wrote (9594)	11/9/2010 12:00:16 AM
From: Jacques Chitte	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

>The basic cosmological argument is this: 1) Whatever begins to exist is caused by another 2) the Universe began to exist 3) The Universe was caused by another. Rudimentary logic. < Logic has two pillars: the process and the premises. Logic is all about process. The premises have to be arrived at by other means, ideally rational ones. That being so, I cannot argue the logic of this above syllogism as it stands. However I am strongly inclined to question the first premise. Does something that starts to exist necessarily have an external and precedent cause? Is it not possible for something to not exist, then become existent without there being an identifiable cause? For the sheer Tartarus of it, I posit that if the cause is not identifiable, it is useless to this argument. cheers js

To: Jacques Chitte who wrote (9594)	11/9/2010 1:17:21 AM
From: Greg or e	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

Welcome aboard Jacques. "I am unaware of [an] objective moral law. The examples you cited seem to me to be not entirely to point." No matter where you go, or who you talk to, there is universal moral outrage when someone steals your stuff. This is the way humans are created. Even atheists and the New/Old Age, everything is one, crowd (who's stated philosophy explicitly denies this) cannot help but act as if stealing is objectively wrong. This point has been made by C.S Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and others. <<<If you want to know whether P.Z. Myers thinks that Moral Law has objective existence, steal something from him.>>> I think that's a very clear and specific example that applies globally and to borrow your analogy, there is a mountain of evidence for it.