To: Greg or e who wrote (9602 ) 11/9/2010 4:14:03 PM From: Jacques Chitte 1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300 Excellent question. ...and the longer I ponder it, the more I realize that it is a difficult one. The rub, as far as I can see, lies in the arguable nature of fact and reality. One person's fact is the next person's subversive assumption. Intellectual honesty only has so much to do with it. It's likely that there are facts that I consider so trivially obvious as to not need any discussion ... that you would you would regard as radioactively unfair. By the same coin, some of your reliable everyday facts would make me hold up a hand and say "whoa! Wait just a second there!" Neither of us would be wrong, necessarily. Historically, having even two intelligent thoughtful people listen to each other's questioned articles of faith long enough to arrive at a consensus ... doesn't happen every day. It's hard, and it requires every participant to ruthlessly and unremittingly suppress one's desire to become impatient or annoyed with another's unshared premises. To build the mountain, you and I would first need to colect premises, facts of human and other nature, that both of us accept as true and relevant, then use those in the construction from the foundation up of a moral hypothesis. I do not think that morality is objective. I think it is one of those intensely human responses to our world, like music, or falling in love, that at once are unquestionably parts of our lives ... and impossible to define or regularize. Everyone who has attempted a mathematical treatment of love or music nas failed. In the worst instances, those whose ideology required really slugging away at such a labor have produced monsters, like death camps or Korean mass weddings. All that said, I am willing to be swayed by a compelling counterargument that tests absolutely negative for "revealed" doctrine. cheers js