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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Solon who wrote (9670)11/10/2010 10:17:10 AM
From: longnshort2 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
" In regard to alien contact, he believes "the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans." Then, striking a tone eerily similar to the plot of the movie Independence Day, he commented, "I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach."

Mister triple zero IQ says UFO's don't exist. He must think Hawkins is one of those superstitious bronze-age goat herders



To: Solon who wrote (9670)11/10/2010 11:40:04 AM
From: one_less1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
Does a bowl of milk push the cat to move toward it and have a drink? Or does it cause the cat to move but without a chain of movement causes and effects?

'Spontaneous Generation' sparks the notion of 'Prime Mover,' a mover that does not itself move.

Aristotle actually championed the idea of 'spontaneous generation' of living organisms from nonliving objects for a while until the experiments of Francesco Redi disproved his notions about how such a thing would come about.

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Aristotle: the Prime Mover

Aristotle believed that all movement depends on there being a mover. For Aristotle, movement meant more than something travelling from A to B. Movement also included change, growth, melting, cooling, heating…etc.

Just like his predecessor Heraclitus, Aristotle recognised that everything in the world is in a state of flux.

Aristotle argued that behind every movement there must be a chain of events that brought about the movement that we see taking place.

Aristotle argued that this chain of events must lead back to something which moves but is itself unmoved. This is referred to as the Prime Mover.

In Aristotle’s view change is eternal. There cannot have been a first change, because something would have to have happened just before that change which set it off, and this itself would have been a change, and so on.

In his book Metaphysics (literally after physics), Aristotle calls this source of all movement the Prime Mover. The Prime Mover to Aristotle is the first of all substances, the necessary first sources of movement which is itself unmoved. It is a being with everlasting life, and in Metaphysics Aristotle also calls this being ‘God’.

The Prime Mover causes the movement of other things, not as an efficient cause, but as a final cause. In other words, it does not start off the movement by giving it some kind of push, but it is the purpose, or end, or the teleology, of the movement. This is important for Aristotle, because he thought that an effective cause, giving a push, would be affected itself by the act of pushing. Aristotle believed the prime mover causes things to move by attraction in much the same way that a saucer of milk attracts a cat. The milk attracts the cat but cannot be said to be changed in the process!

Isaac Newton came to the same conclusion in his Third Law of Motion, when he said that ‘action and reaction are equal and opposite’. Aristotle was keen to establish that the Prime Mover is itself Unmoved, or unaffected, otherwise the whole concept would break down. The Final Cause causes movement as the object of desire and love. If God did give things an initial push then he himself would be changed. Instead God draws things to himself and remains unaffected. The stars and the planets move out of a spiritual desire to imitate God. They do this by moving in eternal circles.

Aristotle believed that God exists necessarily, which means that God does not depend on anything else for existence. He never changes or has any potential to change, never begins and never ends, and so is eternal. Eternal things, Aristotle claimed, must be good; there can be no defect in something that exists necessarily, because badness is connected with some kind of lack, a not-being of something which ought to be there, an absence of the ‘actuality’ that Aristotle thought God most perfectly has.

Aristotle argued that the Prime Mover had to be immaterial. It could not be made of any kind of stuff, because matter is capable of being acted upon, it has potential to change. Since it is immaterial, it cannot perform any kind of physical, bodily action. Therefore, Aristotle thought, the activity of the Prime Mover, God, must be purely spiritual and intellectual. The activity of God is thought.

But what does God think about it? God could not think about anything which caused him to change in any way; nothing which could affect him, or react, or even change him from not-knowing to knowing. Aristotle concludes that God thinks about himself only. Nothing else is a fit subject. He even defines God as ‘thought of thought’, or ‘thinking about thinking’. At the end of this line of argument, Aristotle comes to the conclusion that God knows only himself; so he does not know this physical world that we inhabit, he does not have a plan for us, and he is not affected by us.

Aristotle’s concept of the Prime Mover found its way into the medieval theology of Thomas Aquinas and his cosmological proof for the existence of God. Likewise, Aristotle’s teleological arguments found their way into Aquinas’ Natural Law.

scandalon.co.uk



To: Solon who wrote (9670)11/10/2010 4:58:57 PM
From: Jacques Chitte  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
I am a bit puzzled and disappointed by Hawking's item 2. It seems unlikely, but more surprisingly to me, it seems unimaginative.

An alien race or nation that would see our technical infrastructure as a resource - prey - would necessarily be not far advanced from our own. Man is currently nowhere near having a starfaring capability. China will need at least a decade to make good on its declared intent to sendpeople to the lunar surface. Mars is out of reach except to small robot probes. Human starships, let alone large colony/factory vessels, are ideally in the haze of the far future. I consider it very unlikely that, if aliens are indeed targeting Earth, they would be in that narrow stratum of technical advancement that would make stripping our world at all practical.
Chances are that the aliens are so advanced that their interest in us would be biological. They would not see us as peers, just as we do not consider baboons our peers. I would just hope that they don't regard us as we do, oh, lobsters or tuna.
I would have thought that an intellect of Hawking's weight would not be mired in such an anthropocentric and somewhat hackneyed conceit. (The parallel to the movie "Independence Day" has already been drawn and seems rather apt. Hollywood is not known for pushing the boundaries of imagination.) More likely yet imo (assuming aliens on their way) is that they are so different from us that there would be no significant overlap of their interests with ours.
My variant on Hawking's idea of aliens portrays him as an optimist. I cannot stop fearing that the dumbest thing we have done to our species and our home system is to be conspicuously noisy in the electromagnetic spectrum.
cheers js