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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (150451)	11/17/2010 4:57:17 PM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 543026

"The United States still has the most dynamic economy, the strongest military, the best universities, and the most creative entrepreneurs, but our future depends in part on the health of our political system. And right now, Republicans are taking a sledgehammer to this component of the American foundation -- and they do so without embarrassment, in part because they're overwhelmed by a misguided ideology, and in part because they loathe our elected president. This debate over New START drives the point home nicely. Top officials from the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Obama administrations have pleaded with Republicans to be grown-ups about this, and do right by American national security. At this point, GOP officials refuse -- and can't explain why. Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) announced today he'll oppose the treaty because he fears the "Soviet" threat. Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio), an alleged moderate, said today he's inclined to kill the treaty out of a fear that it "diminishes the national security of our friends and allies throughout Europe" -- apparently unaware that our friends and allies throughout Europe support ratification of the treaty Voinovich is prepared to destroy. South Korean leaders see this and resist trade deals. Russian leaders see this and it emboldens their hard-liners. Countries around the world watch our deliberations, shake their heads, and wonder why the U.S. would choose to allow such political dysfunction to continue. And best of all, this will get considerably worse in just a couple of months, thanks to the midterm elections. We really have to do better than this. —Steve Benen 4:25 PM

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (150451)	11/17/2010 5:39:19 PM
From: Katelew	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 543026

I've read plenty on both sides of this issue. And I've seen the net effect on my own tri-county area. While many do work their way over time into the middle class, etc., in the beginning they are a considerable drain. Even after being in the country for years, illegal immigrants are a net drain on their local economy. They either don't make enough to pay taxes OR they voluntarily don't pay taxes because they're already under the radar. Wharfie, remember that nearly half the country pays no federal income taxes. That means there are a considerable amount of people who don't pay state income taxes either. Even if they owe state taxes, they can avoid paying them because the state has no way to track them except through their federal tax forms. In other words, if you don't file federal tax forms in a given year, you then don't show up on the state tax ledgers. The state can't find you. Blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately in the half that pays no state and federal income taxes. They also have a lower rate of home ownership which means they aren't paying property taxes. All that's left is sales tax. So it's just a fact that Hispanics as well as blacks draw more out of social services than they pay in to support those services. And the illegals pay in the least. Oftentimes, small businesses that employ illegals will withhold income and payroll taxes from their Hispanic employees but never send that money in to the government! Both the illegal workers and the government are being scammed. Legal immigrants are a whole different matter. In this day and time, if they are getting admitted that usually means they have skills and education levels that are needed. Thus good jobs are available to them and they'll soon be paying their share of taxes. They aren't a net drain on the country. Your articles state that illegal immigrants are vital to the CA economy. This is true but it's an obfuscation. They're vital to the employers who need cheap, pliable labor so in this sense they are vital to keep the economy humming. But that doesn't mean they aren't a net drain on the schools, hospitals, and other municipal services that were built to take care of their burgeoning numbers. Remember, the average income in CA has been declining for the last ten years from 135% of the national average to 105%. During that same time, CA has become 37% Hispanic. I suspect the root of your budget problems come from these two facts, and these two facts are causal in relationship. The solution starts with going after the employers of illegals, imo. Even employers of household help.