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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (8816)	12/10/2010 7:40:02 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 10087

<<Esp since conservatism is about more than religious/cultural/moral issues, but also even on those issues.>> No it isn't. Nonsense I know exactly what conservatives do and say. You think you know. Racism, is racism, is racism. In a simple tautological way, sure. A is A. But different forms of racism, different extents of racism, different types of actions inspired by racist thought are different things, with different levels of significance. But gay bashing isn't racism. It isn't based on race (its similar to racism, but not as you have claimed exactly the same). And having a policy position other than yours on the issue(s) of homosexuals in the military isn't gay bashing, or necessarily indicative of hatred for gays or belief that they are inferior. I don't really have any solid position on the issue, so I'm not really going to argue for DADT, or for the policy before DADT, in fact I'm starting to think DADT is unworkable, and the issues involved don't justify the previous rules of total exclusion, but I'll present an argument that isn't based on hatred for gays, belief that they are inferior, etc. I'm not endorsing this position (or opposing it) just showing one way (but not the only one) someone could come to a different position than you on this issue, despite not hating homosexuals. Many people would not like the idea of co-ed showers (mass/public co-ed showers, and as the norm, not a man and a woman, or even a small group, deciding showering together would be fun, in other words not someone's private sex life). One of the reasons they might give for this would be that such showers might subject people to unwanted sexual attention, perhaps advances, perhaps even sexual harassment. You have a similar issue with homosexuals, except you can't really segregate them. Sure you can to an extent rely on various forms of military training and discipline to head off problems, and it often works to a great extent, but you do create extra stress on the military and some of its members, and you can't eliminate the problems. A counter argument to that might be that treating people fairly and allowing for a larger pool of requirement for the military more than counterbalances the problems. That life includes problems, and sometimes you just have to deal with it. Neither position has to involve hatred or even intolerance, or any belief in the inferiority of some group. The main differences would be things like perception of the size of the problems, and perceptions about the importance of the counterbalancing issues. Either side may have serious problems with the position of the other side, but that doesn't mean they can't assume good faith on the other side. That someone disagrees with you doesn't imply they are full of hate or generally are a-holes. You imply one can be a racist for good reasons. No if you oppose the law or opposed the bill for good reasons than it wasn't racist. If you did so for racist reasons than they where not good reasons. Supporting the idea of the rule of law, and the idea that the constitution limits the power of the federal government is not racist. Supporting the rights of racists to have freedom of association isn't racism. Racists may, and have, used such arguments, looking for some justification that doesn't rely on racism, because they realize racism is unpopular; but the ideas themselves are not racist, and are held by many people who aren't racist.