To: carranza2 who wrote (70374 ) 1/15/2011 4:10:14 AM From: TobagoJack 1 Recommendation Read Replies (5) | Respond to of 218375 just in in-trayFrom: C Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 12:37:27 PM Subject: RE: History... and debt Just heard interesting explanation … on why US pension troubles will get worse… Some town in NJ w –dale at end. Say about 40,000 people. First police chief retired in 90s and has been getting total 130k benefits…then now the next one has retired on same package. And not they have hired a guy in late 40s that’ll retire in less than 10 yrs. And then the next one will come… so police chief cost is like 500k. Then they got the fire chief, etc… From: H Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:24 PM Subject: Re: History... and debt I would distance myself from the term 'we'. 'We' are not among the people who have learned nothing. It is a certain group of people who have learned nothing. This can be traced back historically to the victory of several truly bad ideas in the 19th and 20th century, especially in the field of economics. This victory was made possible not on the strength of these ideas, but due to their usefulness for the ambitions of the ruling classes. So it's not 'we' that have learned nothing since Cicero's times - it is 'they'. Here is a good idea that may enable parts of humanity to escape the clutches of the system even on planet earth - in spite of the fact that there are no longer any territories not in the possession of some state:seasteading.org After all, better ideas of how to live and organize society do exist - only, we can not implement them, because powerful vested interests stand in the way. The solution: go to where they have no power over us and then lead by example. On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:37 AM, C wrote: So, what have we learned in 2,065 years? "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." -- Cicero , 55 BC Evidently, nothing.