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Pastimes : Rock Of Salvation -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: yard_man who wrote (1197)	11/12/1997 8:45:00 PM
From: O'Hara	Respond to of 2110

><>...Hi Barry, I was beginning to wonder where you were...><> In the Library eh?...smile... Heb 5:8-9 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Yea Barry it does seem incredible that it could be said of Him our Lord and Savior, Crist the King, God in Flesh,"He was obedient". When we look back on His Life, however, we can but only come to that conclusion. He was truly obedient to The Father. He spoke of always doing the will of the Father. He said He does nothing of Himself, but that of the Father John 4:34 34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. ---------- ---------- As to "Son of God" You commented: "The Word was with God in the beginning -- Jesus existed in the form of God before the world was, but was He God's son or is that description only meaningful after he took on human form? Luke 10:22-23 22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. 23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: He was the the actual flesh and blood Son of Marythe Title Son of Man takes on a literal meaning....Being conceived by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit, the Title, Son of God takes on a literal meaning. And as the Son of God He remained obedient unto death. As to being God: Matt 1:23 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. There is no Biblical evidence( to my knowledge) that God had a son before the appearance of our Lord, except in the general sense that we are all His sons (children, no gender implied, and of course His creations that were with Him before the foundations of the world. Scripture answers that question by simply stating, Jesus was always God. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....AND... John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. God Bless you Barry, you have a deep and searching spirit for truth. Your questions are absolutely thought provoking and you are Filled with love and sincerity for our Father and all the wonders that are God.... May God continue to bless and keep you and your family Matt 5:6 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Love in our Lord Jesus The Christ Shalom...><> BTW...Barry as you mentioned this thread is open to all and I am sure there are people reading....To God be the Glory

To: yard_man who wrote (1197)	11/12/1997 9:58:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2110

Barry, maybe I'm supposed to share this because I just saw it last night digesting all of the similar views of God,, Jesus and Spirit, a debate that has raged almost since day one. Do you realize that in our zeal and zest to assure ourselves and everyone else that Jesus is God, He IS God, He IS God, as some of the dear devoted brethren do out of a devotion to Jesus He never really demanded of us, that we take away from God the ability to have produced a son as perfect as Jesus? We take away God's son--when we are made in God's image, are made like-minded with him through Christ. We, in our infinite wisdom then erase God's SON from view. I believe this is what Ron was getting at. WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE AWAY GOD'S SON. GOD LOVES HIM!!!!! GOD IS PROUD OF HIM. IT IS GOD WHO WILL SHOW OFF JESUS FOR ALL ETERNITY. JESUS IS THE JEWEL IN GOD'S CROWN. He produced Jesus, created Jesus and gave Jesus his mind soul and spirit. That's why the world hates Jesus. They never speak about hating God, because satan hates the Son more than the Father, because it is all the more to satan's shame what he and his followers are. Remember that before Christ Jesus came to earth and dwelt among us, satan was worshipped across the face of the earth in every form possible and people were totally happy with it, and even the Jews themselves turned again and again to the satanic religions. We are not to erase that, we are to marvel and revel in it. We, in turn, will be the jewels in Jesus's crown. I have been most disturbed about the charismatic crazies almost doing away with the one who sits on the throne, and acting as if there is one only, and I believe it is totally wrong, and robs us of fellowship with all three. If I'm wrong on this, it will take a miracle to change my thoughts back. Ron, I thank you.