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Politics : Manmade Global Warming, A hoax? A Scam? or a Doomsday Cult? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Webster Groves who wrote (2163)	1/31/2011 11:37:04 AM
From: longnshort	3 Recommendations Respond to of 4326

"and only a political issue with you deniers." This was started by the REDS after the fall of the USSR. Asked the founder of greenpeace who says the reds infiltrated the greens to stop capitalism. The reds made it political from day one and intelligent people understand that and are fighting back

To: Webster Groves who wrote (2163)	1/31/2011 12:08:07 PM
From: Jorj X Mckie	3 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4326

Great post! you are the first pro-AGW person to dismiss to acknowledge that the main proponents of the AGW movement are charlatans and that they wanted to rip us off with the whole carbon credit thing. With that out of the way, we can have a real conversation. The questions that I see them are: 1. Is there Global Warming? 2. Is Global warming bad? 3. If there is global warming, What is the cause? 4. If man is the cause, is there anything that we can do to change that? 1. I think we can all agree that there has been some global warming in the past 150 years. It amounts to a little more than 1F. However, there is ample evidence that the pro-AGW scientists have manipulated data to support their conclusions. If the warmest decade in the past 150 years is actually in the 1930s, it suggests that there really isn't a warming trend, even if it is warmer today than it was 150 years ago. 2. So if there is some global warming, is it bad? It actually was coming off of a period of global cooling. There is absolutely no indication that the current warming is anything but normal cyclical variation. But to the real question, is it bad? That question only has meaning if you finish the sentence of "bad for humans". And we naked apes like a bit of warmth...as long as that warming doesn't cause other deleterious effects like droughts. But as you pointed out, warm air means more moisture, which means more clouds, which means more rain and snow. I don't think that we can use the fact that a few homes along the malibu coast or miami might be damaged as an indication that global warming is bad for mankind. So I'm not convinced that some global warming isn't actually a good thing. 3. Outside of the fact that the answer to question #2 is still up in the air, the case for an anthropogenic source of the warming still has not been established. Yes there is more CO2 today than there was 150 years ago. But is it the cause of the warming. Or, is the warming the cause of the increase in CO2? Or is the cause of the increase in CO2 from removal of foliage that processes CO2. Or is the warming simply a normal cyclical variation rooted in ocean currents? or solar cycles? Or is it a combination of all of the above? In spite of the insistance of the pro-AGW crowd, the cause of the nominal warming that we have had in the past 150 years has not been established. 4. Assuming that man is the cause, is there anything we can really do about it that isn't worse than just accepting it? The civilized world is doing everything it can to bring undeveloped countries into the "civilized" world. That will necessarily require more energy. China has a population the size of the USA's that is still living in agrarian conditions. And they have a detailed plan to bring them all into fold in the next 20 years. Part of this plan includes bulding 16 new coal burning power plants per year. So let's talk about coal. What would happen if the coal miners in the US stopped mining coal today? What if we shut down all of the coal power plants tomorrow? How many people would die as a result? I would suggest that the number is much bigger than what we would see from the effects of global warming. Since you brought up Antarctica, you are aware that there isn't anymore antarctic land showing than before. Some glacial ice has broken off in antarctica, but the area is nominal when compared to the overal size of antarctica. Further, the antarctic sea ice extent (which is much larger than the artic sea ice extent, will offset any of the albedo effect. In other words, your point about antarctica not getting much snow is pretty meaningless. Especially in light of the fact that it is a desert anyway. And back to your point about moisture in the air bring more precipitation. What is necessary for precipitation to happen? It's not a trick question.....clouds. Those big fluffy things in the sky. An increase in warmth would certainly suggest an increase in clouds, which would increase the albedo of the planet, which would have the end result of regulating how much the planet can warm. Of course, the pro-AGW scientists' climate models don't include the effects of clouds.

To: Webster Groves who wrote (2163)	1/31/2011 3:09:52 PM
From: joseffy	3 Recommendations Respond to of 4326

The Black Hole of Global Warming Spending frontpagemag.com

To: Webster Groves who wrote (2163)	1/31/2011 3:12:21 PM
From: joseffy	3 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4326

Webster, any post you make is based on your regurgitation of tired left wing talking points.

To: Webster Groves who wrote (2163)	1/31/2011 3:26:20 PM
From: joseffy	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4326

What’s to Blame for the Crisis in Egypt? You Guess it: Global Warming By Doug Powers • January 31, 2011 michellemalkin.com What in the world caused wars, upheavals, strife, poverty, starvation and inflation before global warming? I can’t remember, but in any case, we’ve got another symptom of global warming to add to a list that has grown faster in the past ten years than Al Gore’s waistline. From Noel Sheppard at Newsbusters: On Friday, MSNBC’s Chris Matthews blamed the crisis in Egypt on George W. Bush and the Iraq war. Two days later, climate alarmist extraodinaire Joe Romm blamed it on – wait for it! – global warming: This summer’s extreme global weather raised fears of a “Coming Food Crisis,” as CAP’s John D. Podesta and Jake Caldwell warned in Foreign Policy: “Global food security is stretched to the breaking point, and Russia’s fires and Pakistan’s floods are making a bad situation worse.” Earlier this month I discussed how, in fact, “Extreme weather events helped drive food prices to record highs.” Back then, experts were worried about food riots. Now they are happening. The Washington Post reported on the connection between food prices and Tunisian violence in mid-January, in a piece headlined, “Spike in global food prices contributes to Tunisian violence.” [...] Robin Niblett, director of the Chatham House, was interviewed at Davos (click here) and said the Egyptian riots “were driven partly of course by the rise of food prices.” NPR had a long story on the subject today, “Rising Food Prices Can Topple Governments, Too.” After quoting various liberal media sources such as the Post and NPR, Romm reached this hysterical conclusion: Energy insecurity and climate instability have now become key factors in food insecurity, which in turn has become a key factor in toppling governments. [...] Those who think that the serious impacts of climate change — and our inane energy policies — on the world economy and U.S. national security are decades away are simply not paying attention. Watching the alarmists present the “evidence” for why everything is caused by global warming reminds me of the way Monty Python proved a woman was a witch — except not as logically sound. Closing thought: I don’t want to hear anything more about rising food prices or shortages from the same sham artists who have been telling us it’s a good idea to power our vehicles with tonight’s dinner. **Written by Doug Powers