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To: Webster Groves who wrote (304442)2/23/2011 12:22:12 AM
From: joseffyRead Replies (1) | Respond to of 306849
 
ROTC and Harvard
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halfsigma.com

Harvard professor Greg Mankiw says that Havard should end its ROTC ban because "Harvard has a moral obligation to play an appropriate role in our nation's defense"
If the real reason behind Harvard's ban on ROTC is to protest the military's perceived backwards attitudes towards homosexuals, then it's a pretty hypocritical ban. The army is controlled by the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government, but you don't see Harvard preventing those branches of government from recruiting on campus. Just the opposite, Harvard has an entire school, the Kennedy School of Government, devoted to training people to work for the evil government which violates the rights of homosexual members of the military.
Unlike working for the Supreme Court or for the President, being in the military is considered to be for the lower classes, so it's not a career opportunity that interests many Harvard students. Thus Harvard can painlessly protest government policies without causing any harm to its students. A genuine protest, such as rejecting funding from the government, is out of the question.
Leftists hate the military because the military fosters nationalism and the leftists hate nationalism. Leftists would hate ROTC even without the military's discrmination against homosexuals. I'm sure this is the real reason why Harvard limits its protest of government policy to ROTC (and a few other military recruitment programs).

October 12, 2006

Right about Harvard hating the military, right about the military being for the proles and thus not of much interest to Harvard grads, partially right about why the left hates the military.
Leftist hatred of the military has a couple of reasons behind it. Probably the biggest is the leftist embrace of nonviolence. No, really. Lefties generally don't believe in violence at this point in time: the French Revolution was a long time ago, and with the Communists gone there's no revolutionary government you could support. Notice such examples as the nuclear freeze movement and leftist attempts to ban violence on TV(as opposed to rightist attempts to ban sex).
The military is also masculine, nationalist, hierarchical, conformist, and a bunch of other things that set lefties' teeth on edge, but you don't see this sort of bile directed at the fire department, which is masculine, nationalist (although only incidentally), hierarchical, and conformist but has the essentially nonviolent mission of putting out fires.
Of COURSE if we closed down the military we'd be invaded by Mexicans eager to steal our stuff. I'm not saying the leftist embrace of nonviolence is realistic. I'm just saying it's why they think that way.
Posted by: SFG | October 12, 2006 at 05:59 PM

Leftists don't hate all violence. They are eager to defend it (or excuse it) when it is perpetrated by one of their pet groups, such as the Palestinians.
Posted by: JAS | October 13, 2006 at 06:25 AM



To: Webster Groves who wrote (304442)2/23/2011 12:24:47 AM
From: joseffyRespond to of 306849
 
UC Seeks to Ban ROTC Ceremony At Graduation

Wants Commissioning Held Out of Yard

By Peggy S. Chen Monday, March 18, 1996
thecrimson.com

The Undergraduate Council passed a resolution, 30-20, last night asking the University to ban the annual Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) Commencement Week commissioning ceremony from the Yard because of the Armed Services' discriminatory position toward homosexuals.

The council also asked that the ceremony not be listed in Commencement Week programs.

The issue was very controversial with passionate supporters on both sides.

Supporters of the resolution pointed out that allowing ROTC to have the ceremony in the Yard implies an endorsement of the program and is in violation of the University's anti-discriminatory policy.

"It's not an issue of patriotism, but of the University maintaining a strong stance against discrimination," said Joshua L. Oppenheimer '97, the political chair of the Bisexual, Gay and Lesbian Students Association (BGLSA).

"It's about being denied the right, the honor and the moral duty to serve the country which we live in," he said.

In recent years, five students have been removed from ROTC because of their sexual orientation, Oppenheimer said.

The ROTC program has not been on the Harvard campus since 1969. Harvard students in ROTC must go to MIT for their classes and activities.

Their scholarships are not funded by the University, but by a special alumni fund.

However, a significant minority of council members said the resolution will needlessly harm ROTC students who have no control over the military's policies.

"[It's an] act of stigmitization to those who most merit our praise," said Eric M. Nelson '99, who is a Crimson editor.

"Harvard has treated [ROTC students] as if they were lepers. It's a slap in the face of every undergraduate who still values honor, duty and country," said John Applebaum '97.

The resolution also asks the University to reinstate the ROTC program when the military no longer discriminates against homosexuals.

The bill falls under the Grimmelman-Nelson Act and will be sent to Dean of the College Harry R. Lewis '68 for approval, veto or return with suggested amendments. Lewis has two weeks to consider the bill.
In additional business, Director of Dining Services Michael P. Berry addressed the council's concerns about the decision to replace Coke with Pepsi in the dining halls.

Last week, the council passed a resolution asking Harvard Dining Services to re-sign with Coke because of student preference and PepsiCo's investments in Burma, a country known for its human rights abuses.

Berry said he will consider the council's concerns about PepsiCo's human rights record and will decide between Coke and Pepsi by Friday.

"I will take your resolution into consideration. I will also take getting you good products and service into consideration," he said.

Berry said that during negotiations, both companies had agreed to donate $25,000 for student activities. The council would receive $15,000.

Berry also announced for the first time plans to allow students to use their identification cards in vending machines and laundry machines.

The council was also visited by new Harvard Police Chief Francis D. "Bud" Riley, who addressed student concerns about safety.

The council also passed a series of uncontroversial and uncontested resolutions.

The council asked the University to keep Cabot Library open 24 hours, to allow upperclass students to eat at Annenberg during certain hours, to keep the Loker Tex-Mex and ice cream stations open longer and to include peer counseling groups in the mandatory orientation week presentation on student conduct.

The council also voted to add an additional $2,000 to the original $5,000 allocated for a band for Springfest, which will be held next month.

Because many bands originally announced were unavailable, the council has a list of new possibilities: Pharcyde, Samples, Ani Di Franco, Freddy Jones and Suzanne Vega



To: Webster Groves who wrote (304442)2/23/2011 12:27:52 AM
From: joseffyRead Replies (1) | Respond to of 306849
 
Let's Ban Ivy League ROTC

By Jed Babbin on 1.3.11
spectator.org

Like the poor, those who hate the military will always be with us. In days of the Vietnam War, a lot of them chose to protest rather than learn, forcing the closure of classes so that they could use their colleges as stages to protest the war and the draft that threatened their comfortable existence. Too many of those who despise the military -- the protesters of the 1960s and their progeny -- have succeeded in taking over the faculties and administrations of some "elite" schools and thus can dominate the minds of their students.

Now that the 1993 "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law prohibiting homosexuals from openly serving in the military has been repealed, some Serious People are pondering loudly if ROTC should be permitted back on campus. They pose all sorts of Important Questions, asking straight-facedly whether the military's warrior ethic should be allowed to taint the "intellectual purity" of academia.

First, let's set the record straight. Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown, and Columbia -- and pretty much all the rest of the Ivies -- tossed ROTC out not in response to the DADT law, but back in about 1969 at the height of the Vietnam antiwar protests. They latched on to the DADT law only as an excuse to continue their exclusion of the military after the enactment of the Solomon Amendment in 1996 threatened their federal grant money. (Rep. Gerald Solomon's law prohibits those colleges that ban ROTC and refuse to grant military recruiters access to their students from receiving federal grants which, in the case of many of these colleges, amounts to tens of millions of dollars a year. It's never been enforced, more is the pity.)

But the Serious People are asking the wrong question. The right question is this: Is it in the military's best interest to invest time and money to recruit and train young officers from among the denizens of the Ivy League? In short, it isn't.

Why would the military want to go to the expense and effort of establishing ROTC detachments at the Ivies where they are still unwelcome? Is it because the Ivy League students are so superior to everyone else that their intelligence and morals are essential to the military's success? That's what the Ivies, in their solipsism, want us to believe.

Only four years ago, when Yale allowed former Taliban spokesman Rahmatullah Hashemi to attend classes as a student (while still maintaining its ban on ROTC), I was guest-hosting a radio show and invited Yale President Dr. Richard Levin to come on the air to explain the college's position. Levin demurred, of course, but his flack sent an e-mail which is a perfect example of that solipsism. Part of the e-mail she sent stated, "While Yale does not host an ROTC program, the University does support those who wish to make such a commitment and we believe that the leadership these students provide is vital to our military."

Can you imagine our Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force without Ivy Leaguers in command? Well, yes. Banning ROTC at the Ivies is as damaging to the military as banning recruitment at Vassar would be to the NFL.

For four decades, we've managed pretty well despite the lack of ROTC at the Ivies. Our military -- by all accounts, even those rendered by hyperliberals such as our president -- is the best on the planet. Some of my best friends are Yalies, but it's absurd to say that the military would be measurably better were there bunches of youthful officers coming out of New Haven. Would they be good men and women? Probably. But would they be better than those coming out of the service academies and the nearly 500 colleges and universities that have ROTC?

No, and they'd likely be worse. The following paragraph is intended for young Americans between the ages of 12 and 17. No one else has permission to read it.

Okay, folks. Listen up. There are thousands of great colleges around the nation at which you can learn any skill or profession you choose. And in none of those colleges will you be so indoctrinated in contempt for your nation, its history and values as you will be in the Ivies. Give yourself a boost in life: for all the supposed benefits you'd get in an Ivy League school, you'll learn more and gain a more realistic view of your nation and the world if you attend a college that's not among the Ivies. Learn elsewhere, and graduate without having your nose so stuck in the air that you believe America isn't a force for good in the world. And trust me, guys: chicks dig the uniform, regardless of which college you graduated from.

We have no shortage of officers, so why would the military impose ROTC on any college that doesn't want it? And the strings that the Ivies want to impose -- not granting faculty status to ROTC instructors, refusing college credit for ROTC courses -- don't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

Antiwar hacks such as the Washington Post's Colman McCarthy say that ROTC taints the "intellectual purity" of the schools, and insist that ROTC isn't worth academic credit because the courses don't meet academic requirements. Really? Do the Ivy League courses on "women's studies," "gay and lesbian studies" and such -- all of which teach political views, not history or sociology -- have more academic rigor than studying, as I did in Air Force ROTC, the history of air war and why civilian control of the military is essential to maintaining democracy?

The "academic standards" contention is risible. The Ivies indoctrinate their students in a left-wing ideology that will make their students' service in the military difficult for the young officers and all with whom they serve.

The best young officers are those who are well rounded in their academic and athletic training and their off-campus experiences. People such as they aren't likely to graduate from an Ivy League school where the unreconstructed hippies of the 1960s dominate the faculty and teach a political ideology that disdains America.

According to a Boston Globe report, only one Harvard freshman has joined Army ROTC in the past two years. That young man has to travel to MIT to take ROTC classes. People such as he should be welcomed into the military, not shunned. But -- for that reason and the others I've already described -- it's clearly not worth the military's time and money to establish ROTC at Harvard or any of the other schools that now ban it.

The Solomon Amendment should be enforced. Allow military recruiters on campus with effective access to students, and those who seek a military career can still enlist in ROTC programs at the more than 2,400 colleges and universities that host ROTC students from other schools.

And lest we be misunderstood, let's say it one more time: Ivies, we don't need you, and until you rejoin America, we don't want you. Capiche?



To: Webster Groves who wrote (304442)2/23/2011 8:55:23 AM
From: ValueproRead Replies (5) | Respond to of 306849
 
"I was unaware that any land-grant colleges, or even any public colleges, had banned ROTC on campus, as you asserted."

During the Vietnam War era, and partly in response to student protests, violence and bombings of ROTC facilities, many schools ended ROTC programs. Some of this extended from the fact that healthy male students were required, by provisions of the grant, to take at least one year of ROTC, though I don't think that requirement continues to exist.

After the war, ROTC was not restored, ostensibly because the military discriminated against homosexuals, but I think it was more just that an overwhelming anti military sentiment still prevailed on campuses.

But times change. Here's a recent editorial about the pending restoration of ROTC at many places where it had been banned.

VP in AZ
{Former cadet at a Land Grant school)
(Vietnam Vet)