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Microcap & Penny Stocks : Rocky Mountain Int'l (OTC:RMIL former OTC:OVIS) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 5:57:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

Newbies!! RMIL (formerly OVIS) FAQ (Part I) Please exercise due diligence before considering purchase of RMIL stock. This is not an invitation to buy stock in Rocky Mountain International Ltd. Anyone "in" or associated with the group of common shareholders actively following RMIL in this thread, regardless of affiliation to any shareholders clubs or organizations or position in the trade of RMIL stock or of any opinion whatsoever regarding this matter, cannot, should not, and does not recommend any action for or against the purchase or trade of any security publicly traded or otherwise. Read posts by RG here: Subject 16714 ******** Complaints to regulatory agencies haven't stopped the practice of undeclared short selling. However, one way companies can protect themselves is to recommend to shareholders that they take physical delivery of their stock certificates. When physical delivery of stock certificates is demanded by a significant number of shareholders, the creators of nonexistent stock can be squeezed. The short sellers won't have stock certificates to deliver and thus they will cause losses for them and will cause them to move their undeclared short activities elsewhere. ****** techstocks.com Company Web Sites: olympusventures.com goodbuys.com Contact Info (from Olympus Ventures WWW page): For all investor relations matters, including information kits please contact: Olympus Ventures, Inc. Corporate Offices 3418 North Ocean Boulevard Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308 Telephone: 954/565-9292 Fax: 954/565-8894 e-mail: ovisusa@aol.com Rocky Mountain International Ltd. If there are any questions you may contact 954/565-9292. A toll free investor relations telephone number of 1-800-555-4214 will be activated as of Friday, Oct. 9, 1997. RMIL is a manufacturer of pure spring and premium artesian bottled drinking water and garment manufacturing. RMIL is focusing its direction on manufacturing, distribution and retailing bottled water and physical fitness products, which the company believes is one of the fastest growing areas in the commercial marketplace. ------- Rocky Mountain Crystal Water label in March 1995. Rocky Mountain Crystal Water purchased the assets of Teton Bottling Company of Jackson Hole, Wyoming in early 1995. Teton Bottling Company has been bottling natural spring water under the Cheyenne Springs label since 1991. The Company has continued to bottle under this label and has an extensive following in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. SEC filings: They tell mostly the story of how OVIS collapsed under old management, then Morgan and Breton came in and picked up the pieces. (Example: the shipping line referred to in the 9/96 press release has been written off now). freeedgar.com Growth plans: olympusventures.com Shares outstanding: From: Riley G Friday, Nov 7 1997 9:52PM EST Reply #15479 of 16024 Todays Numbers....partial updates... Total O/S issued: 3,371,081 Rule 144 Legend: 1,571,081 Total public float: 1,800,000 ==================================== Foundation Shares held: 2,945,105 Shares over public float: (1,145,105) Is there a reason why the NASDAQ short list for the month does not show a short position in RMIL? ? Nasdaq reports on Nasdaq stocks. IBM is not in the list, nor Amex stocks, nor BB or pink sheet stocks. nasd.com Transfer Agent Florida Atlantic Transfer 5701 N. Pine Island Rd. Suite 310B Tamarac, FL 33321 Phone: 954-726-4954 Free RealTime OVIS Quote: cbs.marketwatch.com Intra-day chart** dljdirect.com OUR CREDO IS: BUY patience CALL FOR THE CERTIFICATES patience HOLD patience VERIFY AND RE-VERIFY PROCESSING OF CERTIFICATES patience HOLD THROUGH THE MM TRICKS patience INCREMENTAL SELLING patience

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 5:58:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

Newbies!! RMIL (formerly OVIS) FAQ (Part II) Please exercise due diligence before considering purchase of RMIL stock. This is not an invitation to buy stock in Rocky Mountain International Ltd. Anyone "in" or associated with the group of common shareholders actively following RMIL in this thread, regardless of affiliation to any shareholders clubs or organizations or position in the trade of RMIL stock or of any opinion whatsoever regarding this matter, cannot, should not, and does not recommend any action for or against the purchase or trade of any security publicly traded or otherwise. techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com Read the first 11 posts on the thread. techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com techstocks.com Important Reading: forbes.com busadm.mu.edu * techstocks.com * techstocks.com * techstocks.com * techstocks.com * techstocks.com * techstocks.com * techstocks.com

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 5:59:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

"Subject: Reasons Riley, feel free to post, not post, edit, change, etc. this message. As you are comm central and well informed, I have confidence in your decisions regarding relaying my sometimes too lengthy E-mails. Preponderance of evidence that OVIS will fly: 1. Massive naked short position. Simple arithmetic looking at past volume confirms this. Some people who count volume haven't even taken into account the die hard buy and holders from pre-split days (I am one of these and there are quite a few others). 2. Cartel rough figure estimates based on sharing of information by shareholders far outnumber the authorized float - so much so that even a massive degree of inaccuracy on the part of the cartel still outnumbers the authorized float. Early Cartel rough estimates which were low and didn't include non SI/Cartel supporters, don't even include the million or so shares bought and called for since last Fridays "call your cert message"! 3. More people are buying and calling certs every day. 4. Shares outstanding are confirmed by transfer agent. 5. Wildcard shares are locked up in treasury account and pension plan. 6. The company supports the investors and promises not to distribute more shares. 7. The market makers have requested more shares from the company who firmly replied "No way!". These are desperate actions that reveal much about the mms situation. It doesn't take a sherlock to see mm desperation in this request for more shares. 8. The market makers have manipulated the price drastically since profound interest in the stock and certificate calling have begun. If the market makers were doing fine as some have implied, they would not be dropping the ask on buys, passing over market orders to sweep up cheap shares, selling below ask limits to confound investors, etc. We have seen the price drop on buy/sell ratios of greater than 10 to 1. That is called unethical market manipulation, and if you are a mm, you don't risk doing it unless you are in incredible trouble. Here is a simple rule: MARKET MANIPULATION ON GROWING STOCKS = MARKET MAKERS IN TROUBLE 9. The preponderance of naysayers actually confirm the validity of the cartels position. We are forced to wonder, if the OVIS shareholders are such dupes, and we are going to loose so much money (save me please) why then the constant attacks by non-shareholders and people who haven't ever been heard from before. Why the new faces with misinformation? This had occurred to the degree of cartel members receiving threats. People don't threaten you just for being stupid. Once again, it doesn't take a sherlock to see the determination being mustered against a bunch of innocent investors simply legally calling for their certificates. Why are so many resources being marshalled to stop a bunch of investors from doing what is perfectly reasonable? Explain again why is it now that I shouldn't buy shares of a company I like and call for my certs? It is a good sign of mm desperation. here is another simple rule: UNSOLICITED AND UNSUPPORTED NEGATIVITY FROM STRANGERS WHO DON"T REALLY LOVE YOU = SCARED SHORTERS 10. Inherent value of OVIS. A couple weeks ago this stock sold for 19 cents. At 1.6 million shares it had a market cap of about 300,000 dollars. About the price of a nice single family dwelling. Get real. If this reflected OVIS value, Hard Core would have sued them for slander for even implying that they were doing a deal. Banks would have laughed at them when they asked for capital instead of setting them up with excellent financing. You can't start a halfway decent chicken stand for 300,000 dollars if you plan on having plates and silverware too. Ovis earnings, assets, tax credits, and client base are those of a company firmly worth a minimum of 2.50 per share, and that is if they were never ever planning on growing! Counting for growth,future profitability, common PE valuations etc, the company is worth around 15. There are companies that loose more money per share than OVIS costs per share that sell for 50+ dollars per share. Simple rule: Simple rule: COMPANIES THAT CAN CONDUCT BUSINESS DESPITE DEVALUED SHARES AND MARKET CAP HAVE EXCELLENT RESOURCES AND MANAGEMENT. 11. Past value of OVIS. BAck when this company had poor management, the market still valued it at prices that are dramatic multiples of it's current price. Most of you can't remember back when people were gobbling up millions of shares of OVIS at 14 cents per share PRE SPLIT! because the evidence for future profitability was there. Back then, 14 cents a share was considered a bargain basement deal on this company. Of course no one knew back then that when the company split in order to get on a bigger board that a bunch of manipulative mms would do everything they could to kill this stock rather than loose money covering their naked shorts. The company did the unthinkable, and accidentally made money. oooopps!!! Simple rule: COMPANIES THAT MAKE MONEY ARE WORTH MONEY. If you are in OVIS, you picked a great time to be here. Statistics show that only one out of three companies survive two years past startup. Of those who make it, the average time to profitability is 3 - 5 years. OVIS has finally made it. The preponderance of evidence that this stock will fly is uncommon and fantastic. Investors can wait years for situations like these to happen. Should you mortgage your home? no. Should you go buy a Mercedes? no. Should you count your chickens before they hatch? no. Should you hold this stock into the thirties? Darn right."

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 6:00:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

Here is an article that explains "naked shorting". It can be found at: microcapstocks.com and for a primer on the OVIS situations go here: olympusventures.com Undeclared Short Selling Introduction Many dynamic growth companies have been damaged by undeclared short selling. This practice consists of creating stock that doesn't exist or borrowed (as is the legal requirement) and subsequently sold in large amounts in the open market creating panic selling and decimating share prices, where they hope to buy the position back at lower levels (creating a profit for the short seller). Declared Short Sellers Declared (legal) short sellers are institutional money managers and fringe group market professionals, not small capital public investors. Their positions are reported publicly on a regular basis, and these individuals must borrow the shares before taking on a short position. They must also typically deposit 50% of the value of the short as a margin deposit. From whom do they borrow? Read the fine print on your margin account agreements and you will see it is YOU! This is a perfectly acceptable, legal and ethical investment strategy - just like in commodities you have some folks betting on higher prices, others betting on lower prices in a controlled, disclosed, and regulated environment. Undeclared Short Sellers Undeclared short sellers don't borrow the stock they are selling. They (in most cases) don't even have to pay the margin requirements for their position. They are betting on (and trying to create) total failure of the public company. The odds of failure in small business are better than 98 to 2. There are many ways a public company can confirm an undeclared short position in their stock. One way is to use the response to the company's annual general meeting. The company can add the issued stock (IS) and the short interest (SI). The sum is the stock available in the company's market. Now add the known shareholder positions (KS) and the street stock proxies (SP) If the (KS+SP) sum is greater than the (IS+SI) sum, you have an undeclared position in your stock. Most street stock owners (held in street name at a brokerage firm) don't even submit proxies. You can estimate the size of the undeclared short position by multiplying the stock proxies by 1000. This assumes 10% of the street owners submitted proxies (an estimate, by the way, which is unusually high). When public companies do this comparison they often learn they have 3-7 million shares short and undeclared. The limiting of access to undeclared short selling was supposed to be the Equity Reform Movement but it hasn't limited the practice. It excludes most retail brokers, newsletter editors, money managers and anyone on the fringes of the internal working of the market. Undeclared short selling networks include a few powerful market insiders, a couple of politicians, and a few financial powerhouses. Their motto: "You can never sell too much stock." It is estimated these individuals gross over a billion dollars annually, making it a very big business. How Can Undeclared Short Sellers Create Nonexistent Shares? The trading system is responsible for some of it but most nonexistent stock comes from offshore tax havens. It is impossible to trace the beneficial owner. The nonexistent stock trades several times and comes to rest within the control of the undeclared short selling group. Undeclared short sellers have enough power to force the company to issue more stock, if necessary. It works because the trading system lacks closure. The monthly brokerage house account statements aren't tied to specific shares issued by the public company. The client account statement is a "claim" of sorts on shares. It does not represent actual ownership of share certificates. You end up with an open-ended option on the stock you buy - and no actual ownership. Nine times out of ten your brokerage firm loans your shares to the shorts (short sellers) on settlement day!! So, What Do I Do Now?? (Complaints to regulatory agencies) Though it sounds good in theory, complaints to the so called "experts" who regulate our financial markets have proven to be completely useless. The problem is simple: Lack of knowledge on the part of the regulator. You would be hard pressed to find anyone versed on undeclared shorting with the SEC itself let alone the NASD (who oversees NASDAQ and the Bulletin board) who are "association police" with no real legal power and virtually no transactional knowledge. A complaint to the NASD would probably result in them attacking the public company and the legitimate brokers who bought the shares for their client -- they would attack the victim rather than the culprit. A Short Trap The term "short trap" refers to backing the shorts into a position whereby they must cover (buy back the short position in the open market). The only effective way is to demand delivery of all of the shares currently held in street name. This must be done by the shareholder. The problem is that most brokers are brainwashed to believe that if the shares are not on account at their brokerage firm they are gone forever and the commissions generated selling the shares will go to somebody else. One possible solution is a large buyer (sometimes as much as 10% of the float) who will demand delivery of his shares. The Good News (Is there any?) The good news is that is the trap is effectively enacted the short will HAVE to cover the position. This can, in some cases, take a $.50 stock to $15 or $20 a share - creating huge liquidity for the company and make the shareholders rich. (20-1 returns are not uncommon) Some of the most successful stocks on Wall Street are a result of an effect short trap. Example: Presstek (PRST) -- this was a $20 stock that made shareholders a five banger when a major promoter brought in some large players to bust the short. The Only Real Protection The only real protection: education of investors! Demand delivery of all shares you buy!!!!

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 6:01:00 PM
From: Ellen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 55532

Friday, Sep 12 1997 12:37PM EST Reply #6475 of 12481 Geez!!! I feel like a school teacher here!!! :) Here is a quick and easy to understand explanation: (keep in mind, all the numbers I use will be hypothetical for the sake of simplicity: XYZ corporation has 1,000,000 shares outstanding. Insiders(ie. pres., CEO, CFO, Directors, etc.) own 900,000 shares, therefore the FLOAT is 100,000 shares. Keep in mind, that the 900,000 shares that are owned by the insiders are all in their possession, in other words, their stock certicates are located at their homes and in safe keeping, meaning the DTC (Depository Trust Corporation) does not have them. The DTC only has 100,000 shares, which is the effective float. Now, over the past 1 to 2 years, the MM have been shorting stock to new buyers, however, given the sad state of the company, they figure that they can short and never have to cover by continuously short selling the stock to new investors who want to buy, since they don't have or even need to keep an inventory. This action prevents the stock from going up and gives the illusion of liquidity when there isn't any. Once the retail buying dries up they short the stock to themselves and simultaneously covering thereby creating a "CHURN" while lowering the price. In the process of shorting the stock to retail clients without coming up with the required borrowed stock they are effectivley creating more stock that was not authorized by the company. How can that happen you say? Well, thats why the process of Naked or undeclared short selling is illegal. They are shorting(selling) YOU , in the investment public, stock that was created by them. back to my example above: Lets now say that through the process of Naked shorting the stock to legitimate retail buyers(you and Me) there are now 3,000,000 shares in the public hands or "float". In other words , (you and me) now own 3,000,000 shares of XYZ corporation, when the "float" is supposed to be just 100,000 shares. Now the owners of the 3,000,000 shares decide to take delivery of their stock certificates. They call their brokers and put in the request. The broker then sends the request to the Transfer agent who begins the transfer from the"brokerage name" to your own name. Well, the transfer agent begins to issue certs, however when the reach 100,000 shares their computer stops printing certicates because the legal authorized(by XYZ corp) share limit has been reached. So what happens next? Simple, The transfer agent then calls up the MM and tell them that there are an extra 2.9 million shares and they have 3 business days to eliminate those shares. Now the MM has 2 options: 1) call XYZ corp. and plead their case to them and ask if they please issue 2.9m more shares or, 2) they would have to go in an buy 2.9 shares in the open market, this will in effect skyrocket the stock because they are trying to buy in a market that has the float completely taken up. So in order for the people to loosen the hold on their shares, they have to continousluy increase the price. Hope that explantion helped ( sorry about mis spelled words and typos as I am late for a meeting and must go. Regards Tom

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 6:02:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

Saturday, Oct 11 1997 5:33PM EST Reply #4506 of 4990 What is the shareholder cartel. 1. The term cartel is used for the lack of a better word. 2. The Shareholder cartel was formed by me as a means to count the public shares of OVIS shares on the public market. As I and many others expected to find many extra shares that have flooded the market. The only way for this to have happened is through the blatant selling of nonexistent shares by the market markers to new or old investors buying OVIS shares. 3. Once I had counted some 2.1 million OVIS shares on the market. I new that the market had been flooded with at least 500,000 extra shares. I and others also expect that there maybe between 2 to 3.5 million extra shares in the OVIS market place that should not legally be there. 4. We the members of the shareholder value cartel are each individuals acting on our own in a common cause to achive our proper shareholder value. We are for all shareholders and not just for ourselves. This means that we do not sell any shares until each individuals shareholder value is recieved. We do not flood the market with our shares if we decide to sell them, as OVIS has a small public float and this would collapse it. Thus damaging other shareholders value. 5. The calling of the stock certificates was a last ditch effort as we believe the Market Markers had banned together to hammer the stock back under a dollar and into the pennies again. We were left with no choice in the matter but to take this drastic action as they were trying to decrease or share value through an induced panic selling. This was witnessed by myself and others on the Friday afternoon, before I asked each member to start calling for certificate delivery. The closing on that Friday and trading the next Monday showed heavy signs of this attempted induction of a panic sell which failed as more people bought shares on the dips to stabilize the stock. ----- Based upon the past 9 months eps of .085 cents OVIS should have been trading at $2.125 to $2.5 per share. Based upon the 12 month projected revenues of 15 million plus dollars, I see OVIS trading at $15 to $20 per share. A far cry from the .19 cents I found the stock at when I first started buying it in Aug. 1997. Riley G

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 6:03:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

From: Riley G Oct 2 1997 7:59PM EST Reply #129 of 2376 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:38:28 -0700 Riley and everybody, especially the new comers, We are all smart people here. Sure we have our differences but we can all consider ourselves smart or intellectually capable of making decisions, choosing what's right or wrong, and telling if we are being saved or just totally misled. For those who are not newbies here on this thread, you have seen the amount of posts the NAYSAYERS, have posted on SI. The naysayers spent hours of trashing OVIS and posting false information about OVIS. They are always the same people that does that (just trashing OVIS), and yet they claim that they have no interest in OVIS at all. They post false information all the time, because, as what Randall Baker (the representative of the Magellan Law Suit), they simply want to halt the trading of OVIS. WHY? because they are SHORT! For the Newbies, the Naysayers, are the one's who doesn't have any position in OVIS and yet they trash, post false information, and slander the company OVIS. These people spend hours of their time just bashing the OVIS thread even if they don't even own a single stock. Put yourself in their position and ask yourself if you would do the same thing unless you have any HIDDEN AGENDA. Now decide whether to believe them or not. It is easy to pay a naysayer $100,000.00 just to bash OVIS and try to shake out some shares than to pay an easy $8million to a group of shareholders who has more than 400,000 shares when the price of ovis reaches $20/share.This is just an example. During the squeeze, it is "SKY IS THE LIMIT". Iomega took off to $330/share. Presstek hit more than $200/share. The MM's knows that their time is running out. Thats why they(Naysayers) are in full force trying to scare the UNKNOWING into selling their shares. Of course, we are not stupid enough to just fall for their preys. I myself spoke to Randall Baker of the Magellan Law suit. They are not after the investor's welfare but just theirs. They are so scared about the runup of OVIS. What does this tell you? They have done something ILLEGAL and will soon pay for it. Be smart. You can easily tell if you are dealing with a person or a vampire. Newbies and cartel members, don't believe "the saviors" on this thread. They are not after your welfare, THEY ARE AFTER YOUR SHARES. If OVIS was not illegally shorted...how come people like MAWORK1, ALOHA, KUGLER AND MCDONALD ARE WORKING ROUND THE CLOCK IN BASHING/TRASHING OVIS. You can easily tell that they have a hidden agenda. AGAIN, BE SMART! GO OVIS! THE CAVALRY NOT SELLING! CALL IN YOUR CERTIFICATES AND CONFIRM EVERYDAY IF YOU HAVE TO.

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 6:05:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

From: Riley G Oct 2 1997 10:05AM EST Reply #76 of 4435 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 08:50:35 -0500 Subject: naysayers Riley, There is an excellent article in the October issue of Forbes/ASAP on about page 104 regarding the use of the internet by shorters to drive down stock prices. The articly describes in eerie fashion a parallel of events happening in OVIS. Apparently, what is happening at OVIS is standard procedure for shorters/naysayers. The naysayers do what they do because it works. My reading of the article indicates that the best course of action is for vigilant and informed people (ovis shareholders who have done the dd and reseach to continuously respond to slander with factual information, while avoiding getting dragged into fights, arguments and speculation. This will help new investors see what is going on, who is credible and who isn't. Many humor the naysayers, or think they are just grouchy, amusing themselves, jealous. NO. People do things for reasons. It is a fact of life. The people bashing your stock are bashing it so that you will lose money and they will make money. Even if I am wrong about the naysayers being in cahoots with MMs, it still works out that since psychological factors affect stock prices, these people are hurting you by plying misinformation. My all time favorite post was the one implying that hand and hand are in cahoots with ovis, and that the fake news was all part of a grand conspiracy to make it look like ovis was under attack even though they secretly aren't. - Using this logic, my new theory is that Kugler, Aloha, McNeese et al. are actually long in OVIS, and post negatively, knowing that the effect of their bad mouthing OVIS will have a reverse psychological effect and drive up the price so they can cash out rich with their expensive OVIS. makes sense, right? It is not libel to post a reasoned opinion (an opinion that actually has some kind of conclusion based on fact) - my concluded opinion is that naysayers logically must have some interest in making OVIS look bad. This leads me to conclude that they are deceptive manipulators (read "liars"). Just my opinion. ----- Riley G

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 6:06:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

From: Riley G Sep 19 1997 9:41AM EST Reply #8058 of 12470 Fwd message from AOL: ------------------------------------- Date: 97-09-19 01:06:37 EDT You said: "No short seller can establish a profit on the short side without covering via a purchase. The only exception to this of course is if the shorted stock's company goes belly up. " BINGO!!! What do you think the shorts were betting on last year? After all, the company was losiing tons of money....the old CEO quit and stole a a cargo ship.......stole all the company's documention and accounting books...etc. IF THE MM OR OFFSHORE SHORTING GROUP DID NOT BET ON TOTAL COMPANY FAILURE THEY WOULD BE IDIOTS!!! Then when new management took over, since their naked short position was so immense, they decided to illegally short the stock. in order to prevent new management from turning the company around. Such was the case in January after the 1 for 30 reverse. Immediately after the split they shorted the hell out of the stock so that management had no opportunities to turn itself around through a Nasdaq or AMEX listing and higher price stability. Even when management announced that 9 month EPS was 8.5c back in May, the shorters allowed the stock to go above $.50 before the naked short campaign resumed from late May to early August as the stock went from $.60 to .16 during that period of time. COME ON!!! $.16 /share for a stock that had trailing 9 month EPS of $.085!!! Thats absurd!!! Come on TL the evidence is blinding you!! Especially after this past weakend's tactics of puting out that STRANGE bogus news release. Come on if after all this, you still think that there is no HUGE naked short position out there then you have lost my respect. Its obvious and staring you in the face TL! ---------- RG

To: Ellen who wrote (18008)	11/14/1997 6:07:00 PM
From: Ellen	Respond to of 55532

From: Larry S. Tuesday, Oct 14 1997 10:00AM EST Reply #5238 of 5249 TLW, I am just a lurker, buyer, and holder of what was OVIS, now RMIL. I must say your arguments are impressive and well bespeaks of your years of experience in the market. I in comparison have only been investing a few years and only within the last year in BB issues. Therefore, I can't speak to historical trends and patterns gleaned from the tea leaves of the market from past times and events. But have you considered that what we are witnessing here is a new paradigm in investing??? The internet is a tool that is more powerful that anyone imagines - simply because of the tremendous communication that it facilitates. I would venture to say that it tends to break the bounds of "old school" thought relative to what makes an investment make sense. I believe RG has found the achilles heel of the MM game and they know it (why else the ever increasing and sophisticated attacks). In days past they had complete dominance over the small investor because they were the ones with the information and therefore the control. The internet has changed that. One must factor this in and take it into account in ones assessments from now on. What has happened is the Cartel has become the backbone and the lightning rod for overcoming years of abuse perpetrated by the "smart money" "insiders", "market makers" "insert your favorite name" which have historically taken advantage of the key snipets of information that makes the difference success or failure in the market. This new paradigm scares the h*ll out of the powers controlling the market so its no wonder why all the dirty tricks. My God, it means changing the basis for market control. It may even (heaven forbid) even (as Mr. Hicks puts it) level the playing field - what a powerful thought. Yes everyone that understood how things were must learn a new game - absolutely frightning. Why TL, it must even scare you as you have, and I would think, uncharacteristically judging from your previous posts, lead you into the name calling game (calling RG the pigeon, as in stool pigeon). Yes, and you are right someone, rather several people, imho, will find themselves on the wrong side of the law. But then given the risk, shorters and longs alike, its worth it. I happen to believe its the shorters that will find themselves succuming to the long arm of the law. But if you think about it (please analyze) how much money do they really stand to lose? Many have gone to jail for less. So, I'm sorry, I had to break radio silence and weigh in. In sum, TL I believe you must temper your experience with an understanding of this new paradigm. Don't dismiss it, or let it frighten you into discounting it. What you have here is people and not just those in the Cartel, initially just wanting to make money, but now willing to lose their entire investment to elevate and get a resolution the issue of shorting and abuse of the small investor. I for one am proud to be in their ranks. People! RG has it right in my humble opinion. We are part of something historic. Lets fight the good fight!!! Larry S.