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Biotech / Medical : VVUS: VIVUS INC. (NASDAQ) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: BigKNY3 who wrote (2526)	11/15/1997 5:07:00 PM
From: don roberson	Respond to of 23519

Thanks. This at least gives me some kind of preliminary base line. It looks now that there are positives and negatives on both sides, and it will be the particular taste of the user that will determine the market percentage. It will take some time in the market place for any trend on which way will lead, but as all have said, it does not seem that only one will win out. AFter reading the pills response, I'm wondering about consistency in performance for an individual. And I also am wondering about the time that the VIAGRA is potent in the male body. Does the VIAGRA just finally settle in the penile tissue, or does it settle in other organs and remain potent for 8 hours, and the long term effects of such a chemical in the heart, etc., especially when it looks like the ED drugs will be used quite often.

To: BigKNY3 who wrote (2526)	11/15/1997 5:09:00 PM
From: Gene Voss	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23519

BigKNY3:Thanks for the reply.The more I hear about the system the more confident I become in locally applied meds.Any MD knows studies can be designed to prove or disprove any hypothesis based on patient selection and protocol.My suspition is that this preliminary data once peer reviewed will show extensive investigator bias. Your earlier comments regarding the reliability of P-N and other investigators is partially correct.They would be morons to falsify results but a partial truth with attention to only positive aspects of a trial is easily defended by merely explaining away the inconsistencies as an overview of the investigation not meant to be specific. Once these guys present their results to their respective specialties the real Viagra will be examined by MD's who will hold these investigators to a much higher standard than they currently face.Should be interesting. GAV

To: BigKNY3 who wrote (2526)	11/15/1997 6:07:00 PM
From: don roberson	Respond to of 23519

Perhaps another response to Item 3. If the placebos got erection for one minute, and I assume this is "without" physical stimulation, but even if it was "physical", i'm wondering just what kind of test group they used. I would think that the placebos, if they had ED, would not get an erection at all. let alone for one minute. And it would have to be "visual". If it were physcial, then that would mean that the VIAGRA does not sustain, but loses its effect after 10 minutes.

To: BigKNY3 who wrote (2526)	11/15/1997 7:36:00 PM
From: Zebra 365	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23519

In a previous post you wrote: <<<Patients interviewed on televison have indicated that when sexually stimulated a single Viagra pill has lasted for at least 8 hours.>>> 1. How do you sexually stimulate a pill? Show it pictures of girl pills with their time-release coating removed? 2. Was this pill dangerous when stimulated? 3. Were these the survivors who were interviewed? More minutae: There was an old man from Kabul Who soliliquized thus to his Tool, "You've stolen my Health, And squandered my Wealth, And now you won't Pee, you old Fool!" Seriously, BigKNY3, thanks for your comments and contributions. Also the "Peabody Report" (see the PFE board on AOL) is an excellent piece of work. I agree that Viagra approval will have a short term negative impact on VVUS stock and a long term positive impact on MUSE sales, provided the new plant is online with increased production. Re: Placebo effects and side effects: Placebo Effects: For those unfamiliar with the scientific method of inquiry, the truth is that studies of drugs and treatments do not "prove" cause and effect. This would literally be impossible. (The reason is irrelevant.) What is usually done is that the events are studied and linked statistically. Say you have two groups and one group takes the studied drug and another group takes the placebo. Each group will have a certain number of "responders" and "non-responders". The difference between the two groups is then analysed mathematically to see if the difference is statistically significant. This is expressed as a "p" value which is the chance that such differences could have been the result of just random clumping of events. ie. p = 0.04 means that there is a 4 in 100 chance that the difference was caused by chance. The smaller the "p" value, the stronger is the statistical evidence that the studied drug was responsible for the difference in the two groups. Usually "p" values of 0.005 (ie 5 in a 1000) or less are considered significant or "proof" in medical studies. Look for the "p" value after reported results in studies. Side Effects: During the study of a drug, the participants are given surveys regarding the incidence of side effects. Things such as headache, stomach upset, insomnia, and diarrhea are all reported. It is common to see side effects be as great or greater in the placebo group as in the control group, give people a pill and they will blame all their troubles on it. Usually, only a handful of side effects are greater in the drug group versus the placebo group and these are cited in the promotional literature. Check closely enough and you will find that almost any side effect has been reported for any drug, and any placebo, too. These are often reported to the prescribing physicians in table form because most of the differences in these categories are not significant. Actually I'm not a physician and never been involved in research, I just made all of this up. <gg> Good Hunting Zebra

To: BigKNY3 who wrote (2526)	11/15/1997 11:39:00 PM
From: MisterED	Respond to of 23519

BigKN,<can Viagra be taken with alcohol>, and your answer was "do not know". I can tell you this, if a man and his partner can not have a couple of drinks or a bottle of wine prior, forget it. I am not saying that sex can not be enjoyed without alcohol, but if it has to be made a prerequsite for having sex, I certainly would not consider Viagra. I personally prefer a cozy time without any restrictions, and then use Muse if neccessary. I think this goes for women too. Let's hope alcohol has no effect on either.