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Politics : Liberalism: Do You Agree We've Had Enough of It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (105015)5/17/2011 12:44:29 PM
From: JakeStraw2 Recommendations  Respond to of 224862
 



To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (105015)5/17/2011 1:23:31 PM
From: tonto1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224862
 
That made little sense. What were you trying to say?



To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (105015)5/17/2011 4:23:10 PM
From: Jorj X Mckie4 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224862
 
We tried that under Bush. It didn't work.

A couple of points.
1. Bush is no longer the president
2. The economy is influenced by many factors

To point number one. Bush spent like a drunken sailor. He is hardly an shining example of fiscal responsibility.

To point number two. The economy was in a shambles when Bush took office. The bursting of the dotcom bubble had serious economic ramifications and pretty much immediately drastically reduced tax revenues. To try and offset the sudden loss of wealth, there were government influences to inflate real estate values. This lead to the mortgage crisis that we are still feeling the effects from.

Simple logic and common sense says that reducing taxes has a stimulative effect. You can draw analogies with your own individual financial situation.

Partisan talking points simply aren't going to solve the problems.



To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (105015)5/17/2011 8:38:08 PM
From: lorne2 Recommendations  Respond to of 224862
 
Can a presidential election be undone?
'Lost' impeachment testimony argues no constitutional crisis in removing Obama
May 17, 2011
By Drew Zahn
© 2011 WorldNetDaily
wnd.com

Throughout the ongoing controversy over Barack Obama's eligibility to occupy the Oval Office, questions have arisen about the consequences of removing a sitting president from power.

Would a constitutional crisis ensue? Can a presidential election be "undone?"

The recent publishing of previously "lost" testimony from President Bill Clinton's impeachment trial reflects on those questions, arguing the people have a right, duty and process for removing a president who disregards the Constitution.

"The cry also is raised that to remove the president is to create a constitutional crisis by undoing an election," wrote Rep. James E. Rogan, R-Calif., in his pre-written closing argument – which was not delivered as planned – for the impeachment trial. "There is no constitutional crisis created when the simple process of the Constitution comes into play."

He continued, quoting Dr. Larry Arnn of the Claremont Institute, who said, "The people elect a president to do a constitutional job. … If the president is guilty of acts justifying impeachment, then he, not the Congress, will have overturned the election. He will have acted in ways that betray the purpose of his election. He will have acted not as a constitutional representative, but as a monarch, subversive of, or above, the law."

Rogan's "lost" argument is now published in his new book, "Catching Our Flag," a volume of his comments and detailed diary notes as a member of the 13 House managers who prosecuted Clinton's trial before the Senate.

Rogan told students of Hillsdale College that he had written his closing argument, but during a recess right before he delivered the speech, he was compelled to change his plans.

"In my prepared closing argument before the Senate, I had tried to summarize for my children and my grandchildren what the trial was about," Rogan told Hillsdale. "But the Chief Justice called a break just before I was up, and while in the back room I heard some remarks on television that called for an immediate response. When I rose to speak, then, I jettisoned most of my prepared text."

But now, for the first time in "Catching Our Flag," Rogan's original, "lost" comments are being made available to the public.

Many of Rogan's other, never-before-heard arguments also reflect a parallel between what Clinton was accused of doing and what some would accuse Obama of doing, were he demonstrated to be ineligible to be president.

For example, Rogan had "jettisoned" the following prepared comments from what he actually said before the Senate:

"[The president's] defenders now plead for no constitutional accountability for the one American uniquely able to defend – or debase – our Constitution and the rule of law," Rogan wrote in his "lost" argument. "They seek to save him who cares only about saving himself. And they call for this remedy at the cost of weakening Jefferson's revolutionary pledge, made only a few paces from this spot almost two centuries ago, of 'equal and exact justice to all.'"

"The youth of my generation were moved by the words of another who reminded us that the rule of law must apply to all, or it would apply to none," Rogan had prepared to say in his "lost" argument. "Shortly before his tragic death, President John F. Kennedy echoed Jefferson's sentiment. He said, 'For one man to defy a law or court order he does not like is to invite others to do the same. This leads to a breakdown of all justice. Some societies respect the rule of force; America respect the rule of law.' His words are important, because President Kennedy, like Jefferson before him, recognized no exception for those who happened to share his party affiliation or political agenda."

"Should this issue be decided by reviewing the latest polling data?" Rogan had planned to ask, but didn't. "If your answer is 'no' to his question in the abstract, but you are inclined to vote for acquittal, take this self-test. Simply ask yourself if your vote on the Articles of Impeachment would be the same if the president stood at a 6-percent job approval rating instead of a 60-percent job approval raing. … But if that difference governs – if polls matter more than the oath to uphold the law – then yet another chip out of the marble has been struck."
Not all of Rogan's prepared remarks were jettisoned, however, as he carried much of his closing argument into the Senate, including comments that would be eerily poignant today, should Obama be found ineligible:

"The mere fact that a person is elected president does not give him the right to become president, no matter how overwhelming his vote margin," Rogan told the Senate. "Votes alone do not make a person president of the United States. There is a requirement that precedes obtaining the power and authority of obtaining the presidency. It is the oath of office. It is swearing to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. It is accepting the obligation that the laws are to be faithfully executed.

"No oath, no presidency," he continued. "It is the oath of office, and not public opinion polls, that gives life and legitimacy to a presidency. This is true no matter how popular an elected president may be, or how broad his margin of victory."

The entire text of Rogan's "lost" argument can be read in Appendix 4 of his newest book, ""Catching Our Flag," an uncensored, behind-the-scenes look at what went on during America's last presidential impeachment.

"This first-hand narrative provides a fascinating inside tale of politics, power, expendiency and intimidation," said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who wrote the foreword. "Other books in this subject invariably rely on fading recollections (or wholesale fantasies). Congressman James Rogan was more than a witness; he was a leading figure in the most important trial in our country's political and legal history. It is a story only he can tell."



To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (105015)5/18/2011 7:35:04 AM
From: lorne3 Recommendations  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 224862
 
West: Obama 'a black mascot' and 'black puppet'
May 17, 2011
By Matt Viser, Globe Staff
boston.com

Cornel West, a Princeton University professor and leading black intellectual, is harshly criticizing President Obama, a candidate he once supported but now calls “a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats.”

West, a former Harvard University professor, said during an interview with the website Truthdig posted yesterday that the president has not been true to his race.

“I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men,” West said. “It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white…When he meets an independent black brother, it is frightening.”

The White House did not have an immediate comment. West did not respond to messages left at his office.

Republicans have questioned Obama’s origins — to the point where he felt compelled to release his long-form birth certificate to prove he was born in Hawaii — but West also uses Obama’s past to draw into question the president’s racial bearings.

“Obama, coming out of Kansas influence, white, loving grandparents, coming out of Hawaii and Indonesia, when he meets these independent black folk who have a history of slavery, Jim Crow, Jane Crow and so on, he is very apprehensive,” West said. “He has a certain rootlessness, a deracination. It is understandable.”

West is a professor at Princeton's Center for African American Studies and is the author of "Race Matters." He was a professor at Harvard, but left in 2002 amid quarrels with then-president Lawrence Summers.

West also recounts personal slights — that his phone calls didn’t get returned, and that he couldn’t get a ticket with his mother and brother to the inauguration.

It is not the first time West has raised questions about Obama. Last year, during an interview with NPR, he said he wished the president were more “Martin Luther King-like.”



To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (105015)5/18/2011 7:43:22 AM
From: JakeStraw4 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224862
 



To: Kenneth E. Phillipps who wrote (105015)5/23/2011 11:52:19 AM
From: TimF3 Recommendations  Respond to of 224862
 
<<If we decrease taxes it gives businesses more money with which to grow their business. Growing their business increases the tax base.>> We tried that under Bush. It didn't work.

False. Unless you define "work" as generates more revenue fro the government. I don't. The "Bush tax cuts" didn't "pay for themselves". They reduced revenue. But they increased private wealth more than the reduced government revenue. In other words they increased overall wealth. That an example of something that works.

---

The Bush Tax Cuts Worked.
The ”Bush tax cuts on the rich” are generally viewed as a “failure”. If the criterion is that the tax cuts would have saved the economy from financial meltdown, that is certainly true. Of course it is absurd to think that cutting taxes by 3-5 percentage points would prevent a gigantic financial meltdown.

Another question is if the tax cuts were entirely self-financing, so that cutting taxes would completely pay for itself. This did not happen, nor should we have expected it to given what we know about short-medium run responsiveness of the tax base to tax rates.

However, this requirement is also too extreme. I think the important question is if tax cuts stimulate growth by a reasonable amount. For tax cuts to be completely self-financing, they have to stimulate growth enourmosly. This only happens either if the responsiveness to taxes is very high (in fact it seems to be moderately high) or if tax rates are extremly high (which they are not in the US.). But what if tax cuts in the American setting stimulates growth by a good deal, but not enough to be self-financing? Should we throw away a useful tool just because it is not Voodoo?

The detractors of the tax cuts seem to be going to the other extreme, arguing that the Bush tax cuts had no effect at all on growth, and that they were not at all self-financing, and therefore that supply-side economics is totally wrong.

But remember that actual supply side economics claims that tax cuts stimulate growth. It is only vulgar or straw-man supply side economics that claim that tax cuts always stimulate growth by the extreme amounts required for tax cuts to be 100% (or more) self financing.

Here research comes in. Economists have in fact studied the effects of the “Bush tax cuts for the rich” on the tax base. The answer is that they did stimulate the economy, and were partially self-financing, about 40% self-financing to be exact. That is a pretty good deal: for each $0.6 dollars that the government loses in revenue the private sector gains $1 dollars.

The paper “The 2001 and 2003 Tax Rate Reductions: An Overview and Estimate of the Taxable Income Response” By Gerald Auten, Robert Carroll and Geoffrey Gee in the National Tax journal in 2008 calculates the responsiveness of income on tax rates, and finds that also in this case did people whose tax rates go down increase their taxable income (their standard estimate of the elasticity of taxable income if 0.4 in this period, in line with the literature). Regarding the tax cuts for the rich, they find that:

“Overall, the increase in taxable income translates into higher revenues that offset about 39 percent of the static revenue loss associated with the reduction in the top two tax rates.”

Empirical evidence suggests that Supply side economics worked as predicted in theory, also regarding the Bush tax cuts.

super-economy.blogspot.com