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To: O'Hara who wrote (1225)11/16/1997 7:24:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker  Respond to of 2110
 
Shalom, why are the tears among us? Very interesting. The tares
have vexed me since the first, interrupting services with their
clapping in the middle of a holy presence of God, making mockery of the gifts of the spirit by faking them, and on and on and on. How could this be for good reason? I'm sure there is because the Bible says all things work together for good.

Now I notice that after you enticed me back into a discussion of
Rev. 7, you make no more mention of it. It can only be discussed
if I know you are really looking at what John said, and stripping your mind of anything else except what John saw. If you are no
longer interested, it is like I said, this does not matter and we should probably be praying about what next if war breaks out in Iran!



To: O'Hara who wrote (1225)11/17/1997 10:13:00 AM
From: yard_man  Respond to of 2110
 
>>The reapers will do all the pulling up, we are not the reapers.

However, many people think they can do a better job, and in fact while they are
trying to help God in the harvesting, they in fact do much harm.
The tares are among us for a good reason.!<<

Amen, Shalom.



To: O'Hara who wrote (1225)11/17/1997 4:14:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 2110
 
><>...Is it written?...><>

The "rapture theory" as it is taught by most in the christian
church. Is it written?

The ministers of this doctrine teach that the only way our "All Knowing" and "All Powerful Father in heaven, God Himself, can protect those who love Him from His wrath, is to Zap them out of here. They say that, "only" christians are good enough to be "Zapped", and all others will be left behind to be tortured, maimed, and murdered.

They teach that a political world leader, used by satan will be the one to commit these atrocities. They say "he" (whoever he is,they cannot decide ) will be the antichrist. They teach that all of these atrocities will be going on while the christians are feasting at the wedding banquet with our Lord Jesus. They also teach that we christians can be "Zapped" at any moment!

The Word of God states

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
2 Thess. 2:3

In the above scripture scripture Paul was teaching on the return of Christ. He was setting the record straight. He said the return of our Lord will not happen until:
1. There come a falling away first
and
2. That man of sin first be revealed, the son of perdition.
Paul has even gone so far as to give us the identity of this evil one.

perdition # 684 Strongs Concordance,= Apoleia, ruin or loss, perish, waste from # 622, Apollumi, to destroy fully, perish, the base of 3639

# 3639, Olethros, to destroy, ruin,i.e. death, punishment destruction.
There is "Only One" entity that fits Paul's description of this evil one. There is "Only One" that has already been judged and condemned to perish. (Ez. 28 vs. 15-19 + Ez. 26 esp. v. 21) The prince of Tryus (Tyrus= rock... the false rock) the false messiah, the antichrist, satan.

anti, in the Greek # 500 from 473 and 5547...
#473 = Instead of , because of.... Not Against
Christ #5547= Anointed, ie: The Messiah

Antichrist therefore means instead of Jesus. Not someone used by satan to stand against Jesus, but satan himself (in his own body). He is still up to his same old deceiving game, trying to be God..... He intends to take the place of our Lord Jesus by coming disguised as Jesus..... See 2 Thess. 2:4, Also 2 Cor. 11:14, The word Transformed, #3345 Strongs = disguised.

He is not coming to deceive a world of unbelievers, God knows he has already got them fooled. He is coming to deceive those who love the Lord.

Look at the word "falling" as in falling away 2Thess. 2:3
#646, Apostasia, defection from the truth, to foresake, same as apostasion, divorce.

It will be the son of perdition who causes this falling away. Who but christians can fall away? Who but christians can defect from the truth? Foresake who? Divorce who? Are christians not the bride of Christ? Yes, and only christians can divorce Him.

Christians will be here when the antichrist, satan disguised as Jesus, comes to this earth, deceiving only those christians, who can be deceived, into believing that he is Jesus and has come to "rapture" them away.

The heart of the "rapture theory" is 1 Thess. 4:13-18, look closely at the subject of these verses, it is "where are the dead". Paul is telling them not to be concerned about those who have already died and won't be here at the return of our Lord.

v14....because if you believe that Jeus died and rose, so too will they who are already dead in Jesus (believers). And they will infact return with Him.

v15.And we who are still alive (in the flesh) and still here at the coming of the Lord cannot prevent ( precede) them who are already with Him.

prevent #5348, a prime verb; to be beforehand, ie: anticipate or precede, by extension, to have arrived at:-- ( already) attain,come prevent

v16. For Jesus Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a
voice of the archangel, and with a trump of God and those who are dead (already with Him), will infact rise first. Because they are already there with Him.

v17.then we who are alive and are still here at His coming shall meet Him in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air (spirit) and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Air # 109 Strong's, to breath unconsciously,ie: respire by analogy to blow "air" ( spirit)......It is Not the same as:

Air # 3772, (through the idea of elevation) the sky, by extensions the heavens the abode of God air, heavenly sky.(Atmosphere)

v18. so stop worrying, because those who are dead are already with the Lord, and will not miss Him at His return.

These nor any othere scriptures even hint at the "any moment- christians only rapture theory"

End of Part One.



To: O'Hara who wrote (1225)11/17/1997 4:37:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Respond to of 2110
 
><>...Two process second coming?...><>

Another scripture the "rapture theorists" use to back up their claims of a "two process" second coming, which is Not written, is:

Then two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left. Matt. 24:40

Look back at vs.36-39 see the subject matter, always note the subjuct matter . Jesus was comparing His second coming, (one process) to the days of Noah. Those who were "taken" were taken by the flood,(which lasted five months), They were not in the Ark!... Gen. 7:24...Those who will be taken in the last days will be the ones deceived by satan, the antichrist. Those who were not "taken"in the days of Noah, were in the ark. It will be no different at the return of our Lord. Today our "ark" is Jesus, the true Jesus, and HIS word not man's.... There is in-fact, as Jesus taught, going to be another flood. A flood of lies, a flood of deceit! (Rev. 12:15) This deceitful flood of lies will also last five months.(Rev. 9;10)

Rapture theorists also use the following choice scriptures to back up their claim of the "any moment false doctrine" (Luke 12:37-40, Matt.24:36-44, and 1 Thess.5:2. All scriptures which teach of our Lord returning as a thief,are a warning to those who are no longer waiting for His return! (Those who will when satan appears believe it to be our Messiah)... (Look at 1 Thess. 5;4) Those who are in darkness will No longer be waiting for Him because they will believe that He has already returned. They will be worshipping the false messiah, the wrong Jesus, the antichrist,satan, disguised as Jesus. They will be doing his work while waiting for him to "rapture" them out of here. He will be here in his own body (Rev.12:7-12), making peace (Dan. 8:25), and the whole world will whore after him. (Rev.13:3), all except those who have the seal of God in their forehead.(Rev. 9:4)

...But ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should overtake you as a thief.1Thess 5:4

That day will not overtake those who know the truth, who know the chronological order of the end times. Don't let the "rapture theory" blind you to the truth of God's word? Will you be harvested out of season? Will you cry for the mountains to fall on you? I pray not, and I pray that your flight not be in winter.

, "...blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Luke 23:29
Compare those words of our Lord to the following: "Woe unto them who are with child, and to them that give suck in those days. (Matt. 24:19)

Study also the Parable of the ten virgins, (Matt. 25:1) and compare that teaching of our Lord to (Luke 23:29) and (Matt.24:19) and look very Carefully at the teachings of Paul in (2 Cor. 11:2). All of Paul's teachings were with that in mind- To present us christians as a chaste virgin, a worthy bride to Christ.... A chaste virgin (spirtually) means a lot more than most christians have been taught...But I fear said Paul, that satan also beguile you. Don't be corrupted. Let no man deceive you.

Note the irony of the ten virgins. They were all virgins,(christians) who were watching and waiting for their bridegroom, but then WHAM, something went awry, and half of those christians were shut out of heaven.... more specifically the wedding supper of the Lamb! In short Jesus was teaching that the foolish half ran out of oil(truth).

And what about the "barren" why are the "blessed"? And why "woe" to them that are with child? ....... The barren are those who did not run out of oil(truth), they were waiting for the true Messiah, they had not defiled themselves, they did not sleep with the enemy. They had remained virgins. They kept themselves for the true bridegroom, the true Messiah. They had not worshipped the false Christ,the wrong Jesus, the antichrist, satan disguised as Jesus. They had remained virgins, they had not been spiritually impregnated, they were not deceived, not beguiled nor corrupted. (blessed are the barren).

One must understand that only those who know the truth, and the chronological order of end time events,( those with the seal of God in their forehead), and still do worship the antichrist,have sealed their fate to condemnation. All others will certainly not be worthy to attend the wedding banquet of Our Lord, but will in-fact be taught the real truth and real discipline in the millennium Ez 44-48 This is why God our loving Father provided the 1000 yr. reign of Christ.!... At which time satan will be bound, so that his evil deceitful ways will not influence them during the teaching (Rev 20:3). At the end of the millennium satan will then be loosed in order to test and deceive those who he might.Those who cannot be deceived at this time will in-fact experience the second ressurection.

The first resurrection is of those who will not be deceived the first time, while on earth, and will not worship the antichrist. They are the ones who will attend the Marriage Supper Of The Lamb. But the rest(Rev 20:5-6) those who did not know the truth because of false teachings and a variety of other reasons, and who will be deceived while on earth, and do worship the anti christ, instead of attending the wedding feast, will have to go through the millennium,being taught the difference between the profane and the holy, the clean and the unclean (Ez 44 v23)It is this group that did not take part in the first resurrection, that may, if they are not deceived at the end of the millennium,take part in the second resurrection.

Those who do not experience the second resurrection at the end of the mellinnum, because of being once again deceived by satan when he is loosed, will then at that time, experience the second death, the death of the soul. (Rev 20:11-15).

THE FIRST DEATH: Is of the flesh, we must all die once (Heb.9: 27) and that will happen to all who are still alive, at the 7th trump, 1Cor. 15:51-52 ALL changed from flesh to spirit, ALL flesh will at this time die.

THE SECOND DEATH: Is of the soul.(Rev. 20:14)although we have changed from flesh to spirit, some souls are still mortal, and liable to die, at the last day of the millennium, on judgement day. Some will immediately be resurrected, at the start of the millennium

THE FIRST RESURRECTION: Is of those while still in the flesh body, will overcome.The first Resurrection occurs simultaenously with the 7th trump (Rev. 20:4-6).

THE SECOND RESURRECTION:Is of those who although they do not overcome while in the flesh on earth, because they will in-fact worship the antichrist,may experience the second resurrection.
Many of them, however, in-fact will not experience even this, the second resurrection. They will once again be deceived by satan at the end of the millennium. (Rev.20:7-8) The second Resurrection occurs at the end of the millennium

CONTINUED