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Politics : Libertarian Discussion Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Road Walker who wrote (8404)6/5/2011 10:25:07 AM
From: longnshort1 Recommendation  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 13056
 
"In Latin American, African or Asian countries, I sometimes see shiny tanks and fighter aircraft — but schools that have trouble paying teachers. Sound familiar?"

we pay our teachers too much and get little from it. except PC crap.



To: Road Walker who wrote (8404)6/5/2011 4:10:50 PM
From: Joe Btfsplk2 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13056
 
It's frightening to think that some portion of the electorate might fall for such utter and foul nonsense. This stupid little twit wants to infer that Pakistan is a low-tax laissez-faire Eden?

Had he brains he might look to Hong Kong or Singapore now, Britain or the U.S in another time.

A nation of people who are industrious and govern themselves reasonably well will do fine with a fraction of the government inflicted here. And that smaller government will have less ability to squander treasure or redirect assets away from the discovery of more productive uses.



To: Road Walker who wrote (8404)6/6/2011 11:28:00 AM
From: TimF2 Recommendations  Respond to of 13056
 
let me offer them an example of a nation that lives up to their ideals... ...it’s Pakistan.

Assuming the statement is made honestly, it shows a severe lack of understanding of libertarian ideals, and/or lack of understanding of Pakistan. Pakistan is rather unfree. In many ways less free than the US. It has an inefficient government, that in many ways people get around, but it also is at times a brutal government, that can suppress freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and other free actions by individuals.

This society embraces traditional religious values and a conservative sensibility.

Some people are both conservative and libertarian, but they are two different things. A society embracing traditional religious values is compatible with libertarianism if they are not imposed by aggression. In Pakistan they often are imposed by aggression, whether from the national governments, lower level governments, tribal hierarchies, radical religious groups, etc.

The budget priority is a strong military, the nation’s most respected institution.

The military is a more clearly legitimate government function, than many other things governments do, but making the military a large focus, isn't a particularly libertarian thing. It may be important for the security of the state, it may be a clear waste of money, or it may be something in between, but a large military is hardly something that makes the state more libertarian.

When generals decide on a policy for, say, Afghanistan, politicians defer to them.

Nothing libertarian about that. If the generals where deciding on more libertarian policy (which they generally are not in this case), then the particular policies could in theory be libertarian, but the idea of generals choosing them isn't libertarian (or even conservative in the sense that its used in the US).

I spend a fair amount of time reporting in developing countries, from Congo to Colombia. They’re typically characterized by minimal taxes

Because their poor economies can't support more than minimal taxes. If you tried to impose high taxes, they would simply ruin the economies, assuming they could be enforced. Rich countries are also harmed by high taxes, but they can endure them. Also some poor countries have low taxes, because instead of taxes they have socialism in the classic sense of government ownership of the means of production (which is one of the big reasons they are poor countries).

In Latin American, African or Asian countries, I sometimes see shiny tanks and fighter aircraft — but schools that have trouble paying teachers.

No. Governments in the US spend more money on education than on national defense. On top of that there is private education spending. Overall schools have less problem paying teachers (who's income has grown over the years), then the US military has maintaining force levels and modern equipment and with inefficiencies in the system, but education has its own share of inefficiencies and costs that escalate unreasonably fast). Education spending has grown faster then military spending over the years. Its become a larger share of our economy (although not as rapidly as say medical care), while defense has over time become smaller. None of which is an argument for bigger defense budgets, there is a fair amount of bloat and waste in the budgets we have now, but the idea that the US is severely shortchanging education spending, while giving the military everything it wants is false. The idea that libertarians generally think resources should go from education to the military is also false. (Some of them would want education to largely be private, while seeing the military as a function that probably has to be done by the government, but a shift to a more private education system wouldn't involve shifting government education spending to the military, but rather reducing government education spending and increasing private education spending.)

Maybe that’s why the growing inequality in America pains me so.

Over time the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten richer. I do care about the absolute welfare of the poor, the relative wealth or income, not so much.

cutbacks in access to college are a scandal

There also largely a fantasy. Sure individual cases of cutbacks occur, but most claimed cutbacks are just reductions in the planned increases. Overall education spending from the federal governments, state governments, local governments, and private sector, for the elementary, middle school/junior high, high school, undergrad, and grad student levels, keep going up.

Police budgets are being cut

Generally they are growing.

Mass transit is underfinanced

How do you define and determine that something is underfinanced? Under or over, these budgets have also increased. And there is a lot of waste and inefficency in these budgets.

a low-tax laissez-faire Eden ...like Pakistan

A nonsensical phrase



To: Road Walker who wrote (8404)6/7/2011 1:33:06 PM
From: TimF1 Recommendation  Respond to of 13056
 
Times' Kristof on "this Republican Eden, this Utopia...Pakistan"

Nick Gillespie | June 7, 2011

His point this time around to get a dig in at the GOP and all its many monsters. If they want a low-tax, low-regulation, socially conservative country, he jibes, they oughta move to Pakistan. Here's the rim shot:

The budget priority is a strong military, the nation’s most respected institution. When generals decide on a policy for, say, Afghanistan, politicians defer to them. Citizens are deeply patriotic, and nobody burns flags.

Har har har. Kristof's complaint about the minority party in the United States is that it's somehow killed all sorts of government funding for just about everything except soldiers and rockets.

Let's leave aside for the moment that the Dems have been in power in part since 2006 and in full from 2008 through the start of this year. And let's leave aside that George W. Bush jacked overall government spending through the roof (even before you factor in the last-minute binge that we now know as TARP) and also massively increased the number and scope and cost of regulations. Kristof talks about how in America "mass transit is underfunded," that "schools have trouble paying teachers," that access to higher education is going down the tubes, and then there's that terrifying "Republican plan to dismantle Medicare as a universal health care program for the elderly."

It would be interesting if any of this sort of claptrap were true. Take a look at this chart to get a sense of just how cheap the U.S. federal government has gotten over the past decade:



If you don't see any minus signs over on the right-hand side above, that's because there aren't any.

Under Paul Ryan's budget plan, ostensibly the GOP blueprint to "dismantle" Medicare, spending on that program would increase from $491 billion in 2011 to $809 billion in 2021 in current dollars; beyond that, Ryan's plan says nothing about killing the universality of the plan. The idea that access to higher ed is threatened is belied by reports of record percentages of high school graduates heading to college (whether they will graduate is another issue) and surely Kristof knows that K-12 spending per pupil has been on the rise for decades, class size has been on the decline, and test scores have been flat as a pancake...

reason.com



To: Road Walker who wrote (8404)6/13/2011 2:00:19 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13056
 
This was a reply to a different anti-libertarian comment, but I think it also applies to those calling Pakistan or Somalia a realization of the libertarian dream.

---

4) When I see people writing sentences of this kind, I imagine them pressing a little button which makes them temporarily less intelligent. Because, indeed, that is how one’s brain responds when one employs this kind of emotionally charged rhetoric.

As you go through life and read various writers, I want you to keep this idea of the button in mind. As you are reading, think "Ah, he [she] is pressing the button now!"

marginalrevolution.com